www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings Douay-Rheims Bible

Greetings, and glory to Jesus Christ.

A little background, I was once a traditional Latin-rite Catholic but have since found my home in the Ukrainian Catholic Church. I am now Byzantine to the bone, with one exception; I use the Douay-Rheims Bible. I simply do not trust any other English translation, even the modern Catholic Bibles. I understand that the Byzantine Churches have always used the original Greek New Testament and the Septuagint Old Testament, so if I could find a traditional Catholic-approved Bible using those texts, I would. However, there are none. Is it too “un-Byzantine” of me to use the Douay-Rheims Bible? I feel like using it is a betrayal of my newfound Byzantine home, but I just can’t trust any modern Bible, especially not one that uses the corrupted Masoretic text for the Old Testament and the scholastic guess work of the New Testament “Critical Text”. Thoughts?

Christ is in our midst!!

David,

Welcome to the forum. May your time with us be spiritually fruitful.

One of our members may be able to help you. For my part, I don't think using a Catholic Bible for your own use is a "betrayal," because we are all tying to "get it right" with our relationship with Christ the Lord.

Bob Moderator

I highly recommend the books published by St Ignatius Orthodox Press.

https://www.ignatius.cc/publications.html

Wow, those look to be exactly what I’m looking for. Is the Old Testament out yet? Reading the description it seems like it is still in the works

Also consider the other Ignatius Press [ignatius.com]. They offer orthodox Catholic editions of the RSV: RSV2CE [ignatius.com] & Bible in a Year [ignatius.com]. The RSV is based on the Hebrew Masoretic Text (MT) not the LXX but it incorporates good modern scholarship that the Church endorses. The MT is not corrupt nor is it un-Byzaantine. Its (best) witness is, after all, the Lenningrad Codex! And the LXX itself is not monolithic and has its own textual issues.

I just purchased The Prophetologion and I would highly recommend it. New Rome Press has a portable Eastern Orthodox Bible New Testament which is also used by St. Ignatius Orthodox Press for their Gospel and Epistle Books.

New Rome Press is also planning on publishing late next year/early 2022 a Septuagint based on the Lexham version with some modifications. I believe (but I am not certain) the modifications to the Lexham version will bring out more the Christological meaning of the Old Testament passages.

I would also highly recommend (though you are probably already aware of it) the Ignatius Press RSV-CE 2nd edition. It was a revision of the RSV that besides removing the these and thous, made sure that traditional catholic renderings were used throughout.

There is a new translation of the LXX called the Lexham English Septuagint. It is based Swete's edition of codex Vaticanus. It also contains alternate texts for Daniel, Bel and the Dragon, Susanna, and Tobit as well as the Psalms of Solomon, Enoch, and the Odes (extracts from other books, basically the Odes that are the bases of the canons at Orthros, plus the Gloria and the Prayer of Manasseh). It is a pretty nifty translation (although "aiwna" is translated as "eternities" instead of "ages").

The Prophetologion contains be the Old Testament readings for the lectionary but not the entire OT. I don’t think they are done with the entire OT yet.

I own a copy of the RSV2CE, but to be honest, I’m not a big fan. I really don’t trust any mainstream Bible translation, Catholic or Protestant, made after 1950. The Orthodox seem to have not had the big influx of liberalism that Catholics and Protestants have had, so I am more comfortable reading either an older Catholic translation or a new Orthodox translation. I also own the Lamsa Bible which is translated from the Peshitta, although I use it more for reference than as a go-to Bible.

Christ is in our midst!!

David,

I have many Bible translations and like to go back and forth among them when I am trying to understand or get the "flavor" of the text. Every translation is an interpretation because it is based on the translator(s) study and choice of words.

Beyond that, I found a set of books by Chrysostom Press--the interpretation of the Gospels by St. Theophylact of Ohrid--that has been a treasure in explaining the text line by line. This saint wrote his interpretations of the New Testament toward the end of the 11th century. They have been widely used in the Greek and Slavic Orthodox Churches and have just recently come into English. Unfortunately the project has come to a halt and copies are difficult to come by. Another organization has taken Chrysostom Press over and some of the volumes may be available. I bought the four Gospels a few years back and have found some individual volumes on eBay. I think the new ones will come out in paperback; mine are hardbound. Currently the translators have published the Gospels and two Epistles.

Bob

Anyone interested in the Syriac should look into the translations of the Peshitto. I've heard there are some textual issues with the English translation of the Lamsa, but portions from "the Antioch Bible" by Rev Deacon George Kiraz and Rev. Rabban Joseph Bali is often found in Syriac Churches - but the whole Library is NOT CHEAP - would run at least USD$1,000.00 - https://gorgiaspress.com/surath-kthob

There's also the entire Peshitto Bible in Malayalam translated from Syriac by Malankara Malpan Kurien Kaniamparambil Reesh Corepiscopo but this is not available in English.

Christ is Born!!

Michael Thoma,

Just checked out your link. The volumes were all reduced in price but are still very expensive.

If you would be satisfied with an orthodox NT, Archimandrite Lazaros Moore did a fine translation. It has been reprinted with his Psalter. Unfortunately, my copy seems to be missing its frontispiece so I don't know who published it. I know that it is a publisher who specializes in reprinting old books. He did Goar's Euchologion, for example. If I remember, I'll repost.
Also the Peshitta NT is available from Gorgias Press. Very fine!

David,

I went through your frustration several years ago. A friend of mine, Timothy McCormick of the Catholic Bibles Blog suggested a make a small collection of bibles. So, for Latin Fathers, I prefer to keep with me the Douai-Rheims-Challoner. With Greek Fathers, the Eastern Orthodox Bible of Father Laurent Cleenewerck (Unfortunately, he only completed the New Testament) and for Syrian Fathers, I keep the new Peshitta in English that Gorgias press has issued. But, you will find, too that there are variants they may only be found in the text of the particular Father you are reading. When the new Homilies on the Psalms by the great Origen is released later this month by the Catholic University of America Press, Fathers of the Church Series #141, many will be surprised at the variant texts used by Origen.

Speaking of the Psalms, two of the best are: The ones in the Orthodox Study Bible from the Septuagint and those in the Baronius Press Breviary (St. Jerome's Gallican Psalter based on the Septuagint).

Not everything Latin is bad. Take the example of St. Mark of Ephesus - he justly condemned the Latins (actually Torquemada) for the use of faulty translations, but he did not condemn their use of the Vulgate.

In any event, I have found no perfect translation. It is not all modernist or heretical attempts to corrupt scripture, but often just our inadequate human language trying to express the love God has for us.

The Jerusalem Bible -- not the New Jerusalem Bible -- in the CTS editions is excellent. My only hesitation is the Grail Psalter. The problem with all psals translations from the Hebrew is that it makes a nonsense of countless patristic references.