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Why is Bishop Kurt ordering his Priests not to give any Conscientious objection support to Byzantine Catholics who are pro life and refuse the abortion tainted covid-19 shot according to Catholic Church doctrine and are in jepordy of losing their jobs.

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You were answered already. Rome found the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines morally acceptable. You don’t want to accept it, that is your problem.


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Originally Posted by jvf
Why is Bishop Kurt ordering his Priests not to give any Conscientious objection support to Byzantine Catholics who are pro life and refuse the abortion tainted covid-19 shot according to Catholic Church doctrine and are in jepordy of losing their jobs.
What exactly did Bishop Kurt order? I just want to be able to distinguish his words and intent from your interpretation.

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Bishop Kurt ordered his Priests not to issue any Conscientious Objection support statements to anyone, just like the Latin Rite Bishops like dolan and caggiano of CT already have.
I was told this by a Byzantine Catholic Priest in the Eparchy of Passaic after I asked him to add a statement of support to my Conscientious Objection statement based on
refusing to take the covid-19 shot that was mandated by my employer.
I told my employeer that I am pro life and basing my refusal on Catholic Church Doctrine on abortion because the mRNA shot was tested on aborted STEM cells taken while the baby was alive
tand hen murdered by abortion.
If I refuse I will be not be fired but it will be considered a "voluntary resignation" and accrding to New York State unemployment I will not receive any unemployment pay.
Believe me this is the truth!

Last edited by jvf; 09/29/21 07:47 PM.
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Originally Posted by jvf
Bishop Kurt ordered his Priests not to issue any Conscientious Objection support statements to anyone, just like the Latin Rite Bishops like dolan and caggiano of CT already have.
I was told this by a Byzantine Catholic Priest in the Eparchy of Passaic after I asked him to add a statement of support to my Conscientious Objection statement based on refusing to take the covid-19 shot that was mandated by my employer.
I told my employeer that I am pro life and basing my refusal on Catholic Church Doctrine on abortion because the mRNA shot was tested on aborted STEM cells taken while the baby was alive tand hen murdered by abortion.
If I refuse I will be not be fired but it will be considered a "voluntary resignation" and accrding to New York State unemployment I will not receive any unemployment pay.
Believe me this is the truth!

I'm sorry for your situation and will pray for you and that you prevail. The Vatican's CDF and various groups of US bishops have issued guidelines and explanations for why it is morally licit with a disclaimer:
Quote
3. The fundamental reason for considering the use of these vaccines morally licit is that the kind of cooperation in evil (passive material cooperation) in the procured abortion from which these cell lines originate is, on the part of those making use of the resulting vaccines, remote. The moral duty to avoid such passive material cooperation is not obligatory if there is a grave danger, such as the otherwise uncontainable spread of a serious pathological agent[3]--in this case, the pandemic spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes Covid-19. It must therefore be considered that, in such a case, all vaccinations recognized as clinically safe and effective can be used in good conscience with the certain knowledge that the use of such vaccines does not constitute formal cooperation with the abortion from which the cells used in production of the vaccines derive. It should be emphasized, however, that the morally licit use of these types of vaccines, in the particular conditions that make it so, does not in itself constitute a legitimation, even indirect, of the practice of abortion, and necessarily assumes the opposition to this practice by those who make use of these vaccines.

Also, "that vaccination is not, as a rule, a moral obligation and that, therefore, it must be voluntary," and allows that there are "[t]hose who ... for reasons of conscience, refuse vaccines produced with cell lines from aborted fetuses":

Quote
5. At the same time, practical reason makes evident that vaccination is not, as a rule, a moral obligation and that, therefore, it must be voluntary. In any case, from the ethical point of view, the morality of vaccination depends not only on the duty to protect one's own health, but also on the duty to pursue the common good. In the absence of other means to stop or even prevent the epidemic, the common good may recommend vaccination, especially to protect the weakest and most exposed. Those who, however, for reasons of conscience, refuse vaccines produced with cell lines from aborted fetuses, must do their utmost to avoid, by other prophylactic means and appropriate behavior, becoming vehicles for the transmission of the infectious agent.
[emphasis added in both quotes]

Though not an explicit Conscientious Objection endorsement, the basis of such consideration is in the quoted Note on the morality of using some anti-Covid-19 vaccines from the CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH. If you haven't read it in full already, you should do so as providing a basis for your objection. Realize that it is your objection and not a test case for the the legitimacy of abortion.

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jvf Offline OP
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ajk:

The basis of my mRNA Conscientious Objection is based upon my Catholic Faith of being Pro-Life and anti-abortion murder of infants inside and even outside their mothers wombs and
Catholic Church Doctrine on abortion.

The mRNA shot used human STEM cells in its development by testing it first on a aborted human STEM line.
This human STEM cell line originally extracted live baby STEM cells from a baby first before murdering the baby through abortion.
These babies were in the hundreds if not thousands before this technique was "perfected".

The babies then either had their spinal cords cut, their brains sucked out through their noses, heads smashed in or throats cut to stop them from crying before murdering them.
I cannot in good moral conscientious take this derived from evil and thus morally tainted mRNA shot.

The entire Catholic Church hierarchy from PF down to the USCCB which Byzantine Bishops are members of fully support taking this morally tainted according to Catholic Church Doctrine covid-19 shot.

They will not even give support to Faithful Catholic's who are following True Catholic Church Doctrine.
The present Catholic Church hierarchy has betrayed Jesus Christ like judas for their "30 pieces of silver" aka continued government funding.
The present Catholic Church hierarchy have betrayed WE THE FAITHFUL ALSO!

WE THE FAITHFUL must not also betray Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church that He shed His Blood for on Calvary!

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

Last edited by jvf; 09/30/21 01:32 PM.
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jvt,

Slava na v'iki!

Your problem as you write here is with the "entire Catholic Church hierarchy from PF down to the USCCB which Byzantine Bishops are members " because they " fully support taking this morally tainted according to Catholic Church Doctrine covid-19 shot." Setting yourself up as the true interpreter of Catholic Church doctrine on morality against that "entire Catholic Church hierarchy" de-legitimizes the very basis of your appeal to a bishop in the first place, to his authority as the bishop, in support of your position. Here, you are more driven to correct Church policy and teaching, that you consider to be wrong, than to use the policy and teaching, as stated by the Church, as the basis for your appeal based on an "mRNA Conscientious Objection." You are outraged that you cannot present your case based on the authority of your bishop and the Church, whose authority you then question and denounce when it does not fully endorse your viewpoint.

Deacon Anthony

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Originally Posted by Edward H (Irish_Ruthenian)
I feel for you, AJK. Just like me, you are trying do the right thing, the Catholic thing, the moral thing, and you are having your knees cut out from under you by the very people who should be supporting you. It is a sad time in which we live.
It is a sad time, indeed, as were many times in the past. Just to clarify, it is jvt for whom you feel, as do I, and for you also, but for other reasons.

ajk=Deacon Anthony

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"Setting yourself up as the true interpreter of Catholic Church doctrine on morality against that "entire Catholic Church hierarchy" de-legitimizes the very basis of your appeal to a bishop in the first place, to his authority as the bishop, in support of your position."

Are you kidding me?
I have read Catholic Church Doctrine on abortion.
It doesn't take a theologian to interpet.
Abortion=Murder= the 6th Commandment of God = thou shalt not murder.

Anything that is related to abortion in any way, including being pro choice like CINO politicians ,
or any vaccines that have used aborted STEM cells
IN ANY WAY IS AGAINST CATHOLIC CHURCH DOCTRINE ON ABORTION!

PF and the USCCB have massaged True Catholic Church Doctrine on abortion
to comply with their government paymasters!
And Byzantine Catholic Bishops go right along with them for the same reasons.
MONEY.

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Administrator’s Note: I removed a post that made unsubstantiated accusations against a bishop and warned the poster.

A reminder that accusations do not belong on this forum. Posters who desire to make accusations against anyone in orders should do so directly to the competent authorities in the Church, providing irrefutable evidence and with witnesses.

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The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were created without aborted stem cells. After creation they were (regrettably) tested on cell lines from abortions just as many medicines you have probably already used have. By condemning the Pope and bishops and placing your judgement over theirs you are putting yourself in a dangerous place spiritually. You suffer from prelest and need to repent of it.


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"You suffer from prelest and need to repent of it."

Are you saying that a Catholic who believes in True Catholic Church Doctrine on abortion
is "spiritually deluded" ?
This sounds like one of PF's recent comments to the media!

Why does PF and the USCCB still support the most anti Catholic and PRO ABORTION political candidates in American history and
still allow CINO polititions who continually vote for pro "choice" legislation to still publicly Recieve the Eucharist, despite
that being against True Catholic Church Doctrine?

And you are calling me SPIRITUALLY DELUDED because I believe in and FOLLOW TRUE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOCTRINE!

CATHOLIC CHURCH DOGMAS AND DOCTRINES ARE MY FAITH!

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JVF: Father Deacon Lance correctly summarized Catholic Teaching on this issue. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were created without aborted stem cells, and thus are acceptable. Yes, it is regrettable that they were tested using cell lines coming from abortions, but long-standing Catholic theology allows prudential judgement when the intent is to preserve human life.

Quote
Letter from the Colorado Bishops on the Vaccines

We have been asked several questions by the Faithful about relevant Catholic teaching applicable to this issue. The Catholic Church teaches that a person may refuse a medical intervention, including a vaccination, if his or her conscience leads them to that decision. Here are relevant points for this personal decision:

- Vaccination is not morally obligatory and so must be voluntary.
- There is a moral duty to refuse the use of medical products, including certain vaccines, that are created using human cells lines derived from abortion; however, it is permissible to use such vaccines only under case-specific conditions—if there are no other alternatives available and the intent is to preserve life.
- A person’s assessment of whether the benefits of a medical intervention outweigh the undesirable side-effects are to be respected unless they contradict authoritative Catholic moral teachings.
- A person is morally required to obey his or her conscience.
- For more information on these weighty ethical issues, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) has issued a statement that can be read here: Answers to Key Ethical Questions About COVID-19 Vaccines (PDF)

Taken as a whole, these points mean a Catholic may judge it right or wrong to receive certain vaccines for a variety of reasons, and there is no Church law or rule that obligates a Catholic to receive a vaccine—including COVID-19 vaccines.

Catholic theology recognizes and respects your personal assessment that medical intervention to preserve human life does NOT outweigh the undesirable side-effects (that the vaccines were tested with cell lines from abortions). It is appropriate that you also respect Catholic theology and acknowledge it.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were created without aborted stem cells. After creation they were (regrettably) tested on cell lines from abortions just as many medicines you have probably already used have. By condemning the Pope and bishops and placing your judgement over theirs you are putting yourself in a dangerous place spiritually. You suffer from prelest and need to repent of it.
Oh, come now, popes have been condemned in the past by all sorts of people and for all sorts of things, and so there is nothing new about that. Historically the papacy has not been free from heresy. That said, when it comes to an individual's healthcare decisions, so long as they conform with the moral norm, the pope is quite irrelevant. For example: he has no special insight into or knowledge about my medical history. In fact, the most that Church officials can say about the issue in question is that there is nothing that prevents a Catholic from taking a particular vaccine if he wishes to do so, but they have no power to override a person's individual conscience when it comes to making healthcare decisions about whether or not to take a particular vaccine or undergo a specific type of surgery, etc., because that is a matter of personal choice. To be blunt, I will never go to my parish priest or my local bishop and ask for their opinion about the medications that I take or other medical issues, etc., because such things are beyond their competence.

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My statement had nothing to do with jvf’s healthcare choices but his condemnation of the Pope, the Bishops, and presumably everyone vaccinated for coming to the conclusion that to do so is morally permissible. So yes placing his own warped judgement over that of the Church does put him in spiritual danger.

Last edited by Fr. Deacon Lance; 10/03/21 03:54 PM.

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