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#372215 - 11/21/11 03:46 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Nathan]
StuartK Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6022
Loc: Falls Church, VA
All our candles are natural beeswax, no colors at all.

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#372286 - 11/23/11 06:44 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: StuartK]
likethethief Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 924
Loc: SF Bay, CA USA
Originally Posted By: StuartK
All our candles are natural beeswax, no colors at all.

Thus the wonderful smell and feel.
I recently posted some photos I finally uploaded from the last candle making day at St Nicholas. Sometimes bees come along and express an interest while we are working. eek

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#373323 - 12/20/11 06:03 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Nathan]
tomb Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Ohio USA
Could someone please explain why the strict fast for the Eve of the Nativity of our Lord is on the 23rd of December and not the 24th?

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#373331 - 12/20/11 09:18 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Nathan]
StuartK Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6022
Loc: Falls Church, VA
Because Nativity falls on a Sunday this year. If Paramony falls on a Saturday or Sunday, then a strict fast is not observed.

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#373362 - 12/21/11 12:37 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Nathan]
tomb Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Ohio USA
I understand that and I understand not fasting on a Sunday but what is the significance of not fasting on a Saturday?

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#373368 - 12/21/11 01:20 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Nathan]
StuartK Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6022
Loc: Falls Church, VA
Saturday and Sunday are never full fasting days in the Orthodox Tradition. Saturday is the Sabbath; and Sunday is the: Day of Resurrection, the "Eighth Day" that stands outside of time, and the First Day of God's new creation. Both are days of joy and gladness, hence are never subject to strict fasting. Because the Eastern Churches do not fast on Saturdays and Sundays, we calculate the forty days of Lent differently from the Western Church, which does fast on Saturdays and Sundays.

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#373372 - 12/21/11 01:31 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Nathan]
Paul B Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 1269
Loc: PA
Here is the Eastern answer, "It's a mystery."
Friday during Philip's Fast is an "aliturgical" day, that is the Divine Liturgy, according to at least some Traditions, is NOT to be celebrated. So it is fitting that an aliturgical should be a day of special fasting. Here's where the "mystery" is, Saturday and Sundays, even during the Great Fast are "liturgical" days; that is, Divine Liturgy is proper. But why do we still fast (in some Traditions) on those days?

This is a Roman Catholic article, but it has some good information regarding the entire Church on aliturgical days that may be helpful. Maybe a more knowledgable poster can add a better explanation. http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Aliturgical_Days


Fr Deacon Paul


Edited by Paul B (12/21/11 01:33 PM)

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#373373 - 12/21/11 02:07 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: StuartK]
likethethief Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 924
Loc: SF Bay, CA USA
My confusion is that on our calendar last Saturday, 12/17, the Saturday before the Saturday before Nativity, was, like all the other days, pink, but no notation at all on it. I didn't notice until after I'd had fish for dinner, and our deacon had wine with our lunch.... so he seemed to be on weekend auto pilot like me. Every other weekend during the Nativity fast is fish, wine & oil. Looking back at 2010 wall calendar every weekend was fish, wine and oil. Next year wall calendar the final Sat. is wine & oil, no fish, every other Sat. 2012 is fish, wine & oil.

I was discussing this with my pious son on Skype two nights ago and he suggested it was a typo frown on the Sat.12/17/2011 which I roundly pooh-poohed. I may have to discuss this with his vocations director. wink

It is a mystery to me, Fr Deacon Paul. grin I pulled out Fr. Hopko's Winter Pascha, which I haven't kept up reading as well this year, and couldn't see anything on quick read of "Daniel and the Three Young Men" which was what fell then.

We're looking at the St. Tikhon's Lectionary Wall Calendar from STS Press which I get from my Russian Greek Catholic parish, and the same calendar from the OCA I frequent.


Edited by likethethief (12/21/11 02:18 PM)

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#373394 - 12/21/11 11:53 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: StuartK]
Jaya Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 432
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: StuartK
Because the Eastern Churches do not fast on Saturdays and Sundays

Can someone help clarify for me exactly what the quoted statement means, as it has come up in a number of conversations I have had with people, in which they have cited this statement as evidence that the fasting season guidelines only apply Mondays through Fridays, and that on Saturdays and Sundays, we can eat meat, eggs, dairy, etc, even during Great Lent. I know that this is not the case, and that the Eastern tradition is to observe a long, sustained fast, slightly modified on the weekends (wine and oil, for ex), but still, a long, sustained fast. So, what exactly does it mean when we say we don't fast on Saturdays and Sundays?

I have read in some places that the answer to this confusion is that the word "fast" is used in two different ways, sometimes referring to abstaining from certain foods, and sometimes referring to abstaining from all food, or as the difference between ascetical fasting and Eucharistic fasting.

Any clarification you can give would be helpful for me, so that I can better understand and explain the apparent contradiction between the quoted statement and the traditional fasting season guidelines. Thank you!

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#373398 - 12/22/11 08:00 AM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Nathan]
Ot'ets Nastoiatel' Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 226
Loc: 266 Mulberry St. NY, NY 10012
At the beginning of the prothesis the priest prays, "We have been redeemed from the curse of the Law by Your most precious blood...." Now why would we rejoice in being freed from one burden only to slip our necks under an equally pharisaical yoke?! Why not recall the Savior's words, "What pollutes a man is what comes out of his mouth..."? So fast, by all means, according to your ability and under the direction of one's spiritual father: fast from the passions, from spite, malice, lust, envy and become sensitive to the cries of need from the least of the brethren. You'll see: the comestibles will take care of themselves!

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#373404 - 12/22/11 11:24 AM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Paul B]
DMD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
Originally Posted By: Paul B
Here is the Eastern answer, "It's a mystery."
Friday during Philip's Fast is an "aliturgical" day, that is the Divine Liturgy, according to at least some Traditions, is NOT to be celebrated. So it is fitting that an aliturgical should be a day of special fasting. Here's where the "mystery" is, Saturday and Sundays, even during the Great Fast are "liturgical" days; that is, Divine Liturgy is proper. But why do we still fast (in some Traditions) on those days?

This is a Roman Catholic article, but it has some good information regarding the entire Church on aliturgical days that may be helpful. Maybe a more knowledgable poster can add a better explanation. http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Aliturgical_Days


Fr Deacon Paul


Dear Fr. Deacon, Great answer, but I would add the alternative Orthodox answer to 'It's a mystery.' Of course that would be the ever-popular...."It depends." LOL


Edited by DMD (12/22/11 11:25 AM)

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#373408 - 12/22/11 12:13 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: Ot'ets Nastoiatel']
Paul B Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 1269
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
At the beginning of the prothesis the priest prays, "We have been redeemed from the curse of the Law by Your most precious blood...." Now why would we rejoice in being freed from one burden only to slip our necks under an equally pharisaical yoke?! Why not recall the Savior's words, "What pollutes a man is what comes out of his mouth..."? So fast, by all means, according to your ability and under the direction of one's spiritual father: fast from the passions, from spite, malice, lust, envy and become sensitive to the cries of need from the least of the brethren. You'll see: the comestibles will take care of themselves!



Good post, and I learned a new word...comestibles.

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#373410 - 12/22/11 01:45 PM Re: Nativity Fast [Re: StuartK]
ajk Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 1515
Loc: MD
Originally Posted By: StuartK
... we calculate the forty days of Lent differently from the Western Church, which does fast on Saturdays and Sundays.
"differently" yes but not as stated rather more the opposite:
Quote:
Like Western Lent, Great Lent itself lasts for forty days, but unlike the West, Sundays are included in the count. Great Lent officially begins on Clean Monday, seven weeks before Pascha (Ash Wednesday is not observed in Eastern Christianity) and runs for 40 contiguous days, concluding with the Presanctified Liturgy on Friday of the Sixth Week. The next day is called Lazarus Saturday, the day before Palm Sunday. However, fasting continues throughout the following week, known as Passion Week or Holy Week, and does not end until after the Paschal Vigil early in the morning of Pascha (Easter Sunday).
Great Lent

That's the counting. For the fasting, as Fr. David Petras notes in his Typicon giving the customary Byzantine/Constantinopolitan usage:
Quote:
In the Great Fast, abstinence from meat, fish, dairy products, alcohol and foods cooked in oil was prescribed for all days, except days of mitigation. All Saturdays and Sundays, February 24, March 9, Wednesday to Friday of the Fifth Week, the Prefestive Day and Otdanije of Annunciation were mitigations for wine and oil. The Feast of the Annunciation (March 25) and Palm Sunday were general mitigations.

According to this only "the Annunciation (March 25) and Palm Sunday were general mitigations". However it is actually in the West that Sundays are neither fast days nor counted in the 40:
Quote:
Most followers of Western Christianity observe Lent beginning on Ash Wednesday and concluding on Holy Thursday.[2][5] The six Sundays in this period are not counted because each one represents a "mini-Easter," a celebration of Jesus' victory over sin and death.
Lent

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