Greetings,

I can't seem to find the guidelines for the Nativity Fast and would be much obliged if someone could help me out. It snuck up on me (this is my first Christmas season as a Byzantine Catholic, and I was deer hunting over the weekend ).

So any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Nathan

Nathan,

There are indeed "guidelines," but fasting is not something that ought to be done on your own, especially if this is your first year as a Byzantine Catholic. My advice, as unsatisfying as it may be, is: ask your priest!

God bless,
Jason

A primer can be found at "Philip\'s Fast / Advent" .

Philip’s Fast is voluntary. Each should fast according to what is appropriate to himself and his family after consultation with a spiritual director.

Philip’s Fast was never as rigorous as the Great Forty Day’s Fast before Holy Week and Pascha. According to the tradition, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday were days of strict fasting without meat, dairy products or oil (in Slavic countries). On Sundays fish was permitted (but lay people were often permitted fish on all days).

I personally do not keep the ‘traditional fast’. I recommend the following:

-Abstinence from meat products on all Wednesdays and Fridays from November 15 until Christmas (Friday’s as a minimum).
-Strict Fast (no meat or dairy) on Christmas Eve and Theophany Eve.
-At least one act of charity (beyond whatever it is you already do). This might mean helping your parish deliver Christmas Baskets to those in need, inviting an (elderly) widow or widower to dinner (or doing them some service), visiting a nursing home.
-Extra time in prayer (public (most parishes celebrate either the Advent Moleben or Advent Vespers) or private (pray the psalms through once during this season).

I agree with the Admin, what he describes is similar to my own fasting - except that since I'm not a big meat eater (red meat never really agreed with my digestive system and I run a lot so I have to be careful 'bout that - well - nuff said), so I avoid a couple other festive foods on Wednesdays and Fridays as well as avoiding meat (like I'll pass on having a glass of wine or a chunk of chocolate). I am glad the Admin brough up charitable acts - fasting helps YOU and YOUR spiritual well-being directly, but why not use the time to do for others as well? My husband and I try to visit and contribute to a religious community (e.g. a monastery) during the period and we also buy clothes for families in a local shelter. My SFO group makes that easy, though, as we receive a shopping list of clothing items with sizes from them. Matter of fact, helping out at a shelter and serving dinner is a wonderful thing to do at a time of year when most of us are probably far too focused on glitter and gluttony - embracing the needy is a wonderful way to prepare to commemorate our Savior's birth.

First the most important thing you should do is to have a spiritual director!

Now if I may I respectfully disagree with the Admin.

To me there is nothing better than the Nativity fast. In fact, I find it much more spiritually fulfilling than the Great Fast. For the sake of argument I need to make one point. That is, in the west Christmas feast day seems to dominate the mindset of Christians. To the eastern Christian Pascha seems to dominate the mindset. We (if you are in Europe or the Americas) Christians of the west regardless of our religious affiliation are culturally dominate by this western mindset. As an example, many employers allow for a week or longer for the “holiday” season. I am told if we lived in the “old country” the same would be said for Pascha but we are not. Whether it is on bullboards, TV, radio, etc... we know it is the Christmas season.

With that said it is hard not to get energized by the feast day. This heighten cultural seasonal awarness makes the Nativity fast all the more important for us. I find strictly following the fast (veggie only) for the entire time period cultivates itself in a heighten spiritual experience. This experience reaches its pinnacle on the Christmas Eve feast. It is made even more enjoyable knowing that I can share my experience with family and friends whom I might not normally see during the course of the year.

My advice if your spiritual director agrees follow the fast with great enthusiasm, and I know you will reap a bountiful spiritual reward!

Well if it means anything, Admin.`s description of the Fast is the one my family always followed.

Your Sister In Christ

The fasting rules are as follows:

Dear Administrator,

The psalms should be prayed through once each week!

Are you introducing Latinizations?

Alex

I think it is wonderful that Ray keeps the traditional Philip’s Fast and I salute him for it.

Not everyone, however, is in a position to keep the full, traditional fast. How and when one fasts must take into account one’s daily life (the needs of one’s family). Households that include children and/or those with medical needs (food allergies, or diabetics, for example) will have to adjust their regimen after consultation with their spiritual father or mother and medical doctor.

One of the most important things about fasting is that no one should know that you are fasting. If those you live with have to make a large, involuntary sacrifice so that you may keep the fast perfectly, then you have already lost.

No spiritual father or mother would recommend the full fast to someone who has not kept it before. I think that the recommendations I have made to Nathan are very reasonable, especially since this is his first go around.

And, of course, fasting is useless without prayer and works of charity.

Alex,

I’m just making a general recommendation to someone who is just starting out. Not everyone has time to keep a full prayer life (I can’t imagine a woman with 3 children under 5 finding an hour a day for prayer!). The logic I offered is clear. If you’re doing something then do a bit more during the fast. If you’re just starting out, then praying the entire Psalter once through during Philip’s Fast is an excellent start.

Admin

My daughter, during her first year of investigating the Byzantine Catholic faith for herself, undertook, without a spiritual advisor, a full, strict fast during the Nativity fast last year. Following the custom of many Americans, she made an exception for Thanksgiving Day and was royally sick that night. She had no idea that her body would react that way and no one to tell her. In addition, her strict adherence to the fast caused alot of low blood sugar and racing heart symptoms which caused us to take her to the cardiologist to have her monitored because of a slight heart valve issue she has had since birth. Everything turned out well, she is very healthy, but it was quite a scare. If she had had a spiritual advisor who knew anything about her she might not have had such a hard beginning. She has since modified her fasting practices and manages to stay healthy and feel well during fasting. I am just offering this experience so that anyone attempting it for the first time realizes that it's not a "do it yourself" project, particularly if you are young, active and possibly still growing.
Just my 2(non-Byzantine)cents
I pray that you will be blessed for your obedience and will grow in God's grace
Michele

For the Melkites, the Traditional Navity Fast is from Nov. 15-Dec. 24 versus the Modern Fast is Dec 10-24.

Ancient Traditional Practice versus Modern here:

http://www.mliles.com/melkite/nativitypreparationfast.shtml

Fasting guidelines here:

http://www.mliles.com/melkite/fastingguidelines.shtml

Dear Friends,

There is also a beautiful Akathist to the Nativity of OLGS Jesus Christ on Fr. Whiteford's Orthodox Liturgical Resources pages - don't worry, it is translated into the liturgical language of the Byzantine Catholic Church!

A great way to prepare and then continue celebrating our Lord's Nativity!

And certainly all the Akathists to the Most Holy Mother of God are especially appropriate for the entire Nativity season - including the Rule of the Theotokos.

Alex

Does shrimp count as a Perhaps a better question is it wise to eat shrimp during the fast even if it is allowed? This might be a good spiritual director question.

Dear Ray,

Shell-fish don't have a backbone, so, in accordance with strict Orthodox fasting rules, this is the only kind of "fish" allowed when fish is allowed during fasts, especially the Great Fast.

The Oriental Orthodox of India were horrified when the RC missionaries among them ate fish with backbones on Fridays and considered them to be sinners . . .

Alex

Along these lines I remember an Orthodox bishop friend in Germany telling me that one of his ranking priests who like to eat asked him if it was permitted to eat turtles during the fasts - like in turtle soup. Vladyka remarked that he didn't know what the answer was.

One question I have is, is it strictly a backbone that the fish can't have for the fast? Sharks have no bones at all, they are cartillagenous. Or is the fast from all animals that have a dorsal central nervous system?

(All vertebrates [including sharks who don't have bones] have their nervous systems on their "backs" and all invertebrates [such as shrimp, squid, grashoppers, etc...] have their nervous systems on their "bellies." and that's not always true since sponges and jellyfish and other "primitive" animals don't really have a nervous system, so to speak, at all!)

The general idea I get with the Nativity Fast is the choice between the Tradition and the Modern.

I think it is important to remeber that which ever you decide on and whatever you stipulate according to the fast, it is in the keeping that you should focus.

Get the dirsction of you spiritual adviser and make a decision. Stick with it and pray constantly.

That's the kind of impression I get.

I broke open a can of tuna fish, and a careful inspection revealed what I was hoping for! No backbone could be found. It is safe to eat during the strictest of fasts.



Nick

Someone told me that the Ambrosian Rite Catholics in Milan, have a six week Advent. Does anyone know anything more about this, and if it is something ancient or new?

Nick

Years ago, a vegan friend (happened to be in a theology course, but just a fellow student) suggested to that if it has a face of any sort, then it's probably "meat!"

Truth is, I can think of lots of things that seem like meat, but that either don't have a really well-defined face and/or don't have a backbone. Like a scallop - no backbone there - but covered in those weird little eyes, that might be a face. I'd say you have somethin' like a face there. Somethin' like...!

Remember the old story (dunno if it is 100% true - it's kind of sunk into an urban legend) about capybaras being determined to be edible during the Roman Catholic observance of Lent as a "fish?" (They're rodents, of course.)

I always found it too easy to give up meat and meat products, with the lone exception, perhaps, of milk in my tea. My mom's family had such good old Eastern European recipes for foods acceptable during fasting periods that you could actually gain weight if you weren't careful. You got all that good homecooking to avoid the meat and meat by product aspect.

Love the tuna comment, Nicholas. I am always amazed that they can get such a gigantic fish into so small a can! ;-)

Alex!

Good to see you here! Hope all is well.

Blessed Nativity Fast!

Dave

Just so no one is caught off guard - someone posted in the Town Hall forum about the coming of St Philip's Fast. In response, I stickied fasting recipe threads (which we routinely resurrect and recycle seasonally) to the Town Hall thread listing.

Likewise, this is an old thread that I also stickied; hopefully, some of the earlier posts will be of assist to members and it's also been left open to new posts. But don't necessarily expect responses from those who posted in the thread's earlier life - which was in 2005. I'd hazard a guess that most of those who previously posted to this thread (exceptions being John, Berg, and Nathan) haven't posted here in at least a year and a half.

Many years,

Neil

In regards to fasting, I like to meditate on the words of St. John Chrysostom:
www.byzcath.org/faith/documents/john_chrys_fasting.htm

Food for thought!

Jeff

Oops! I should have read the dates a bit closer! No wonder this all sounded familiar.

LOL, Dave, you were quicker at the keyboard than me - although it was your post that made me mindful of the need to say something (suppose I best do so on the recipe threads too, now that I think of it)

Our priest in his homily Sunday said he wishes he could put us on the old calendar so we could be better separated from all the cultural "stuff" around "Christmas". It struck a chord among the faithful. The Nativity Fast in whatever form we faithfully undertake it is I think a way of putting ourselves on another calendar even if it's not actually the "old calendar". I do (did) begin the fast with joy!

I was also wondering, during the Nativity Fast, which colored candles we use as Byzantine Catholics? I know the Advent candle is much a Roman Catholic tradition but I do remember our Byzantine Catholic church using different candle colors for each week during the Nativity Fast.

This is my second year as a Byzantine Catholic and only my first after my catechism and first communion. I would have to say I had to have a mentor in my deacon and a wonderful loving church family who was open to showing me their traditions. What I can say is to take your time and enjoy the reasons for the traditions as you hear them from other people. I dove head first into Lent and I would never go back. Having a boyfriend who only eats meat and potatoes was a real challenge for a newbie but we made it through and it SERIOUSLY made me stop and think before I ate. I really realized why I was fasting every time. Any time I wanted to complain I just harkened back to the image of Christ on the cross and how much he suffered. If you can do the fast, again just keep in mind why you want to do it, be it the formal traditional Nativity Fast or the modern one. Either way, once you find your "groove" you'll never go back!
I enjoyed adopting the new "days" to remember and St. Nick's day with the children at church!

I would say that since an Advent wreath is not a Byzantine tradition...there would be no difference in rules for the colors of candles...

All our candles are natural beeswax, no colors at all.

Thus the wonderful smell and feel.
I recently posted some photos I finally uploaded from the last candle making day at St Nicholas. Sometimes bees come along and express an interest while we are working.

Could someone please explain why the strict fast for the Eve of the Nativity of our Lord is on the 23rd of December and not the 24th?

Because Nativity falls on a Sunday this year. If Paramony falls on a Saturday or Sunday, then a strict fast is not observed.

I understand that and I understand not fasting on a Sunday but what is the significance of not fasting on a Saturday?

Saturday and Sunday are never full fasting days in the Orthodox Tradition. Saturday is the Sabbath; and Sunday is the: Day of Resurrection, the "Eighth Day" that stands outside of time, and the First Day of God's new creation. Both are days of joy and gladness, hence are never subject to strict fasting. Because the Eastern Churches do not fast on Saturdays and Sundays, we calculate the forty days of Lent differently from the Western Church, which does fast on Saturdays and Sundays.

Here is the Eastern answer, "It's a mystery."
Friday during Philip's Fast is an "aliturgical" day, that is the Divine Liturgy, according to at least some Traditions, is NOT to be celebrated. So it is fitting that an aliturgical should be a day of special fasting. Here's where the "mystery" is, Saturday and Sundays, even during the Great Fast are "liturgical" days; that is, Divine Liturgy is proper. But why do we still fast (in some Traditions) on those days?

This is a Roman Catholic article, but it has some good information regarding the entire Church on aliturgical days that may be helpful. Maybe a more knowledgable poster can add a better explanation. http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Aliturgical_Days


Fr Deacon Paul

My confusion is that on our calendar last Saturday, 12/17, the Saturday before the Saturday before Nativity, was, like all the other days, pink, but no notation at all on it. I didn't notice until after I'd had fish for dinner, and our deacon had wine with our lunch.... so he seemed to be on weekend auto pilot like me. Every other weekend during the Nativity fast is fish, wine & oil. Looking back at 2010 wall calendar every weekend was fish, wine and oil. Next year wall calendar the final Sat. is wine & oil, no fish, every other Sat. 2012 is fish, wine & oil.

I was discussing this with my pious son on Skype two nights ago and he suggested it was a typo on the Sat.12/17/2011 which I roundly pooh-poohed. I may have to discuss this with his vocations director.

It is a mystery to me, Fr Deacon Paul. I pulled out Fr. Hopko's Winter Pascha, which I haven't kept up reading as well this year, and couldn't see anything on quick read of "Daniel and the Three Young Men" which was what fell then.

We're looking at the St. Tikhon's Lectionary Wall Calendar from STS Press which I get from my Russian Greek Catholic parish, and the same calendar from the OCA I frequent.

Can someone help clarify for me exactly what the quoted statement means, as it has come up in a number of conversations I have had with people, in which they have cited this statement as evidence that the fasting season guidelines only apply Mondays through Fridays, and that on Saturdays and Sundays, we can eat meat, eggs, dairy, etc, even during Great Lent. I know that this is not the case, and that the Eastern tradition is to observe a long, sustained fast, slightly modified on the weekends (wine and oil, for ex), but still, a long, sustained fast. So, what exactly does it mean when we say we don't fast on Saturdays and Sundays?

I have read in some places that the answer to this confusion is that the word "fast" is used in two different ways, sometimes referring to abstaining from certain foods, and sometimes referring to abstaining from all food, or as the difference between ascetical fasting and Eucharistic fasting.

Any clarification you can give would be helpful for me, so that I can better understand and explain the apparent contradiction between the quoted statement and the traditional fasting season guidelines. Thank you!

At the beginning of the prothesis the priest prays, "We have been redeemed from the curse of the Law by Your most precious blood...." Now why would we rejoice in being freed from one burden only to slip our necks under an equally pharisaical yoke?! Why not recall the Savior's words, "What pollutes a man is what comes out of his mouth..."? So fast, by all means, according to your ability and under the direction of one's spiritual father: fast from the passions, from spite, malice, lust, envy and become sensitive to the cries of need from the least of the brethren. You'll see: the comestibles will take care of themselves!

Dear Fr. Deacon, Great answer, but I would add the alternative Orthodox answer to 'It's a mystery.' Of course that would be the ever-popular...."It depends." LOL

Good post, and I learned a new word...comestibles.

"differently" yes but not as stated rather more the opposite: Great Lent

That's the counting. For the fasting, as Fr. David Petras notes in his Typicon giving the customary Byzantine/Constantinopolitan usage:
According to this only "the Annunciation (March 25) and Palm Sunday were general mitigations". However it is actually in the West that Sundays are neither fast days nor counted in the 40: Lent