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#45221 - 01/17/02 04:24 PM St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Anthony Offline
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Dear Alex,

I remember awhile ago you mentioning that Fr. Serge Keleher had a parish or mission in Canada named after St. Seraphim of Sarov. Now that Father Serge is in Ireland, is this mission/parish still in existence? I think it's great that there is a Catholic church that is named after a saint glorified by the Orthodox. Are there any others? Is/was St. Seraphim's Ukrainian Catholic? Thank you.

In Christ,
Anthony

#45222 - 01/17/02 04:41 PM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Dear Anthony,

Alas, no.

The parish belonged to the Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy of Eastern Canada under the Most. Rev. Isidore Borecky who did visit it.

Fr. Keleher was quite the initiative-taker. I remember him telling me that he got some nasty comments from priests at meetings, such as "Where do you get off naming your parish after an Orthodox saint?" and words to that effect . . .

I believe he even called it, at one point, an "Orthodox Catholic" parish.

What I found amusing is how some thought he was going too far in the Easterly direction.

Yet, St Seraphim with his devotion to the Rosary and to his Latin icon of the "Joy of all Joys" was hardly a "model Byzantinist" such as we would find today.

And the Russian Catholic Orthodox (their official name)do venerate him publicly and liturgically since Rome has approved his cult as well.

It is kind of interesting to read about how the Eastern Catholic martyr, St Josaphat would nervously refuse to have anything to do with the Carmelites for fear of Latinization, and yet see other Orthodox saints have no problem with the Rosary and other western devotions.

Other Ukrainian Catholic Churches (St Elias surely) commemorate many Orthodox saints in their liturgies including St Seraphim.

There should be no objection to venerating him in the Ukrainian Catholic Church, especially since he recognized the Kyivan Church to be his Mother and went to the Lavra there to be blessed for his mission by the Ihumen there, St Dositheus (In reality, a woman or Dosithea).

Alex

#45223 - 01/17/02 06:04 PM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Dmitri Rostovski Offline
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This raises a question: As Eastern Catholics, is there any problem venerating any (cannonized)saint of the Orthodox Church? If my spirituality is Slavic and Eastern then why couldn't we have Churches named after Tikhon, Pasiius, Theophan, etc.? I think it would be a good example to our Latin brothers of our desire to be truely eastern even if many of these saints didn't care for the Uniates. I feel that part of our re-embracing our heritage involves looking past historical Orthodox abuses (though I do appreciate some of the negative sentiment on both sides in this regard) and looking at these individuals as enlighteners.

Dmitri

#45224 - 01/17/02 06:07 PM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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anastasios Offline
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my desire for a parish named "St. Anastasios Byzantine Catholic Church" is the greatest, but I would really like to see a parish named, "St. Nektarios of Aegina Byzantine Catholic Church"!

anastasios

#45225 - 01/17/02 06:22 PM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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The young fogey Offline
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Дорогой брат в Христе, Дмитрий,

This raises a question: As Eastern Catholics, is there any problem venerating any (cannonized)saint of the Orthodox Church?

Нет. In fact, according to my San Francisco Russian Catholic friend Lee Penn, the Russian Catholics in America already do venerate everybody in the OCA's menaion, including St Innocent, St Herman of Alaska and St Tikhon. I've seen their icon, and St Seraphim of Sarov's, in St Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York.

I think it would be a good example to our Latin brothers of our desire to be truely eastern even if many of these saints didn't care for the Uniates.

I think Catholicism gives born Orthodox the benefit of the doubt on that, and after all, those saints were reacting to a policy meant to hurt their Churches and that Catholicism itself (at Balamand) now has disowned.

I feel that part of our re-embracing our heritage involves looking past historical Orthodox abuses (though I do appreciate some of the negative sentiment on both sides in this regard) and looking at these individuals as enlighteners.

Да.

http://oldworldrus.com

#45226 - 01/17/02 06:42 PM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Kurt Offline
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Quote:
As Eastern Catholics, is there any problem venerating any (cannonized)saint of the Orthodox Church?


Eastern Catholics? Heck, any Catholic many venerate whomever he or she wishes. The authority to do so is invested in each person.

Ask me about some of the people I privately venerate.

Kurt


Martyered Victims of Nicholas Romanov, Pray for us!
#45227 - 01/18/02 02:45 AM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Daniil Offline
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The funny things is that St. Seraphim's served in the basement of an Anglican Church!(Correct me if I'm wrong, Alex) It's not as if Toronto has a shortage of Catholic Churches, or even Eastern Catholic ones which are liturgically suited.

So, Kurt, whom do you venerate?

#45228 - 01/18/02 10:29 AM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Dear Kurt,

I second Daniil's motion!

Who do you pay tribute to privately - and I'm not referring to your dating experiences which I'm sure are examples of great devotion too!

Alex

#45229 - 01/18/02 10:37 AM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Dear Daniil,

Yes, you are more than correct!

St Seraphim's was in a basement of an Anglican Church and Fr. Keleher used to tell me about how the Irish Anglican minister would wish him well on "King Charles the Martyr's Day" on January 30th each year!

In general, I find that the Ukrainian Catholic Church (don't you just love it?) is a bit boring when it comes to the subject of assigning patrons to Churches.

Naming them after our Orthodox saints would liven things up a bit, don't you think?

These saints were intimately connected with Ukrainian history, so our nationalists shouldn't object . . .

St Paissy Velichkovsky founded the Skete on Athos to which the Kozaks flocked as monks later, including Ivan Vyshensky.

St Dmytry Rostovsky and others were themselves Kozak saints, descended from pious Kozak families.

Taras Shevchenko nourished himself spiritually on the works of St Dmytry, especially his "Lives of the Saints."

And the Pochayiv Mother of God and our other Miraculous Icons?

I once talked about Orthodox saints with Fr. Yuri Fedoriw (+memory eternal!).

He stopped me in mid-sentence (I know that is hard to believe . . .) and said, "Who are you exactly?"

When I told him and he recognized my family name, he said, "I was just amazed that you even bothered with this important topic - our Ukrainian Catholic people know only about St Josaphat . . ."

My grandfather, Fr. Ivan, had a home altar where he celebrated the Divine Liturgy when he was too frail to walk very far.

On it, I placed some icons of Orthodox saints (I was a trouble-maker even then, Serge!).

Fr. Peter Galadza (I think you may know him, Daniil) came by once and saw this.

I saw his jaw open in amazement. At that point, I felt somewhat embarrassed and thought he might box my ear or something.

But no, he then smiled and said, "The veneration of our Orthodox saints will be a measure of our own maturity as a Particular Church."

Words to live by, don't you think?

Christ is Baptised!

In the Jordan!

Alex

#45230 - 01/18/02 11:24 AM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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monksilouan Offline
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I personally venerate Saint John Maximovitch of San Francisco and his icon is in my chapel. It was a gift to me and was blessed on the Saint's holy relics. I also have a few strands of Vladyka St. John's hair in a reliquary which also has a lampada before it. The antimension in our chapel contains the relics of St. Josaphat. I also carry a small bottle of oil from the tomb lampada of St. John Maximovitch with me wherever I go. I remember reading that Pope John Paul II, in a talk, mentioned "Saint John of San Francisco is a Saint of holy joy". Even the Roman Pontiff gave him the title of Saint.
Only blessings, Silouan

#45231 - 01/18/02 11:29 AM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Bless me a sinner, Reverend Father!

An excellent point and the Holy Father's praise of St John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco resonates even more loudly knowing St John's views on the RC's and the RC doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.

While he was in France, St John would walk barefoot and sometimes would serve a panakhida for the assassinated King Alexander in the streets amidst traffic.

He carried the large icon of Our Lady of Kursk around his neck and did many, many other things that earn him his title of "Apostle of the Diaspora."

Besides,the more Ukrainian saints - the better!!

Alex

#45232 - 01/18/02 11:48 AM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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anastasios Offline
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So Kurt, who do you venerate privately? :-) (hey, you offered...!)

People on my list include, but are not limited to:

1) Saint John Maximovitch
2) Saint Nektarios the Wonderworker of Aegina
3) Saint Tsar Nicholas II (thanks for the computer, Nick!)
4) Grandpa Hudson (died a good Lutheran)

I say privately, because as a Catholic I doubt any of the above 4 will be on our calendar anytime soon! (but if I become Anastasios III as in the future thread in the town hall forum, you better bet that St. Duane Hudson of Ohio is going to be on the Calendar!!!!)

anastasios

#45233 - 01/18/02 12:22 PM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Daniil Offline
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I think there is a kind of un-written rule that personally we can venerate anyone we like (as long as they show honest signs of holiness), but as a church, we should only venerate the saints which are officially in our calendar.

However, since we cannot commune with our fellow Orthodox brethren, should we venerate their saints? It is not because we do not recognize their sacraments, but because we are not in full communion and so we should strive for full union and await the day when the velychania for saints such as Serge of Radonezh, Dymytri Rostovski, Ioasaph Belgorodski, Iov Pochaivski, Seraphim of Sarov, etc. will be sung in Ukrainian Catholic Churches, and when the Orthodox do likewise for our saints: Josaphat of Polotsk, Blessed Vincent and his twelve companions, Charbel of Lebanon, Nikolai of Volyn', Archimandrite Clement, etc.

(Don't laugh, such a day will come)

#45234 - 01/18/02 12:22 PM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Dear anastasios: Did you know that there are several icons of the Royal New Martyr Czar Nicholas II that are exuding quite large quantities of holy myrrh? I believe that these icons are all in Russia. I have often wondered about the appropriateness of the glorification of the murdered (martyred?) royal family in Ipatiev House but I certainly defer to the Moscow Patriarchate and Patriarch Alexei. Hoy Royal New Martyrs, pray unto Christ Our Lord for us! Silouan

#45235 - 01/18/02 12:25 PM Re: St Seraphim of Sarov Catholic Church for Alex  
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Sharon Mech Offline
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Alex,

That definitely sounds like Fr. Peter. Please give him my very best wishes & warmest greetings should you see him!


Some (not all) of my personal favorites:

St. Seraphim of Sarov
Bl. Damien of Molokai
Sr. Miriam Teresa Demjanovich
Fr. Lev Gillet
Fr. Alexander Schmemann
Bl. Titus Brandsma (and other saints of the Shoa)
Fr. Alexander Men

And I confess that I find myself asking for the intercession of Met. Judson about as often as I find myself praying for him.

Cheers,

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

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