The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
AdrianFarrell, JStadnik, Tkoty, RomanovvII, squirrelpoose
5618 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 142 guests, and 447 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,794
Posts412,234
Members5,618
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5217 06/14/05 03:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,790
iconophile Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,790
Jonn is right; modern Protestants under the influence of John Wesley long ago left Calvinism and Lutheranism's denial of free will and sanctification. The Wesleyan movement embraced a much more Catholic approach that emphasized personal transformation. Where they went off is in emphasizing the emotional dimension of this experience, and among Holiness believers, in claiming that one can achieve perfection in this life, usually involving a second emotional experience. Still all in all much closer to Catholic and Orthodox beliefs than classical Reformed belief.
If they are successful in converting our people perhaps it is because they manifest the fruits of conversion more than we do...
-Daniel

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5218 06/14/05 04:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
harmon3110 Offline
Grateful
Member
Offline
Grateful
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Quote
Originally posted by JonnNightwatcher:
I think that it is wonderful that someone received a Good News for Modern Man NT from a "bum" on the subway, and that a priest really started to discern his call due to his Evangelical roommate, but let's return the blessing to our Evangelical Protestant friends.
Much Love, Jonn
John,

Good idea. Now, here is hopefully a good question: How can we give what so many of us do not have?

I don't dispute the fuller presentation of the Gospel that is possible in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

Instead, I suggest that many people in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches haven't really *begun* living the Gospel, on the level of the heart, because they have not yet met He who is Gospel, Jesus Christ, in their hearts and in their lives.

--John

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5219 06/14/05 11:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
Father Anthony Offline
Administrator
Member
Offline
Administrator
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
Quote


Instead, I suggest that many people in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches haven't really *begun* living the Gospel, on the level of the heart, because they have not yet met He who is Gospel, Jesus Christ, in their hearts and in their lives.

--John
Maybe because of all the distractions of the modern period, we have pushed the whole process of conversion out from our lexicon. How many really study what the faith truly teaches?

I being a convert of 25 years, had to catch up on a lifetime of learning. Many books were studied, but the one that we have to go back to is the one that our faith is based upon, the bible. I know some resent the convert element because they exude with fervor for the faith. Maybe that fervor should be channelled into learning and living the faith, rather than an emotional attachment. How many of our faithful would be dumbstruck, if you were to qoute the scriptures? Many until they got home would be in doubt.

Yet I know that the Cathecism of the Catholic Church, along with many Orthodox Cathecetical materials constantly refer to scripture. That is so we can not only learn it, but hopefully live it. If we do that then we do not have to worry about the Protestants. They will be coming to us for all the right reasons, to live the fullness of the faith.

In other words it is time to get off our rearends, and get out there and do what the Great Commission calls for, and that is to preach the gospel to all nations, including ours.

Forgive me for my ramblings,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5220 06/14/05 11:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,914
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,914
The funny thing is that many of us learn the basic and simple 101 from our Evangelical friends but when our Evangelical friends want to grow past that level into more spiritual and liturgical fullness, they come to the more advanced spirituality which only the Church offers.

So we both have something to offer the other! wink

Just some thoughts,
Alice

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5221 06/15/05 12:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,914
Alice Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,914
Dear Neil,

Thank you for your post about Billy Graham. It was interesting, informative, and incredibly eloquent. I am also a big fan of his, as I do not think that there is any one today who can rival the amount of people that he has made *think* about Christ and put Him into their daily lives, and that has taught the basic tenets of the New Testament relative to our world today, than him.

Surely he was called by Christ for this special purpose. There has never been anything, as you noted, heretical in anything he has ever said.

For the poster that asked if he derived anything from Orthodoxy after preaching in Russia, the answer is 'yes'. The Patriarch told him that everything he preached was on the button, but that he should mention the Resurrection of Christ more. Ever since then, the Rev. Graham has done just that, and has given credit to the Russian Orthodox Patriarch (name escapes me) that suggested he do that! smile

I also think that he is probably one of the most eloquent orators the world has known since perhaps St. Paul! An interesting tidbit is that he has said that he addresses the crowds as if everyone is in the seventh grade!

Interestingly, I just came across this article about him today on MSNBC..written by one of my favorite spiritual t.v. personalities (not that there are so many of them! LOL!)--Rabbi Marc Gelman of the 'God Squad'. He and a Catholic Monsignor, Father Tom, have a talk show here in New York. (Is that SOOO New York--a rabbi and a priest being best friends---or what???? biggrin )

I think that you will like the title: cool

A rabbi explains why Billy Graham is a giant among preachers.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8147174/site/newsweek/

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5222 06/15/05 04:30 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 148
doulos Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 148
As an Evangelical Christian who has been reading this forum for many months, reading much about the Eastern church and even experiencing Divine Liturgy on a number of occassions, I have to say that I agree that we are truly not so far apart. Before I encountered Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Christianity I truly believed that nowhere in the Catholic Church was true transformation of the soul by the power of the Holy Spirit taught. Our pastor preaches a principle you might call "exchanged life." The heart of this concept is that we are transformed from the inside out by the Holy Spirit and that we have new life in us because of Christ. We can argue about how this occurs, but if we both recognize that Christ lives in us and calls us to holiness, we are pretty much on the same page, imho.
Blessings
Michele

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5223 06/15/05 04:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 121
S
stojgniev Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 121
Michele,

As a Greek Catholic who has experienced the great ignorance and intolerance of fundamentalist Protestants in my youth, I thank you for your input, and may we all grow to love and share in those features of our faith that UNITE us. Since the passing of John Paul II, I have learned after many years that there are non-Catholics who do not indeed hate us.

May Our Lord and God and Saviour Jesus Christ help us all to love another!

stojgniev

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5224 06/15/05 06:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,962
I
Irish Melkite Offline
Global Moderator
Member
Offline
Global Moderator
Member
I
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,962
Quote
Originally posted by alice:
I just came across this article about him today on MSNBC..written by one of my favorite spiritual t.v. personalities (not that there are so many of them! LOL!)--Rabbi Marc Gelman of the 'God Squad'. He and a Catholic Monsignor, Father Tom, have a talk show here in New York. (Is that SOOO New York--a rabbi and a priest being best friends---or what???? biggrin
Alice,

Thanks for the article; it was very interesting. I've heard the "God Squad" radio show on several occasions and have always found it interesting. It puts me in mind of a similar show that ran on Boston radio for many years with a wonderful interfaith panel whose names, unfortunately, now escape me.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5225 06/15/05 08:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 140
dwight Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 140
Thanyou Mexican for telling it like it is.

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5226 06/17/05 01:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
harmon3110 Offline
Grateful
Member
Offline
Grateful
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,528
Quote
Originally posted by JonnNightwatcher:
[ . . . ] the Evangelical Protestants and the Eastern Catholics/Orthodox are much closer to each other than one can imagine. both believe in a personal transformation due the work of the Holy Spirit based on a personal faith in Christ.
The more I think on your observation, the more I think it is profound.

--John

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5227 06/17/05 01:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Diak Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Quote
In other words it is time to get off our rearends, and get out there and do what the Great Commission calls for, and that is to preach the gospel to all nations, including ours.
Father Anthony, bless! May we all take your words to heart - and actually live it out. And start with our own families, neighborhoods, and parishes.

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5228 07/18/06 10:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
J
Joel Badal Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Dear Ray:

It seems amazing that a man of faith would make very crude remarks about a ministry and person who has committed his life to Jesus Christ. ABT has sought to translate God's word for the Assyrians and Chaldeans so that they clearly read in their own language the true words. Ancient Peshitta vancular is no longer understood by the common man.

By the way, ABT is not supported by Moody Bible Institute. You should check your information before you enter into a conversation. You should also that ABT does not involve itself in world evangelizations. Its mission is to translate God's word and literature such as the Jesus Film.

If you are a Chaldean or Assyrian, then you would understand the value of our projects. Be very careful how you label people.

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5229 07/18/06 11:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,881
Pavel Ivanovich Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,881
I think we have seen these 'we are translating the bible into various languages so the 'common'(that could have been put better) man sorts before. The only way the Chaldean Church can deal with that sort is to continually warn their people of what the deal is really all about with these Westernised missionaries with their westernised religion (usually heretical).

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5230 07/18/06 11:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,555
ElijahmariaX Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,555
Quote
Originally posted by alice:
The funny thing is that many of us learn the basic and simple 101 from our Evangelical friends but when our Evangelical friends want to grow past that level into more spiritual and liturgical fullness, they come to the more advanced spirituality which only the Church offers.

So we both have something to offer the other! wink

Just some thoughts,
Alice
I happened to learn my lessons from Scripture in the Catholic Church. wink

I know that's doing it the hard way but by gum there were Catholics who taught me too. Old fogeys! Deaf. Half-blind. But Scripture they knew. Old and New. Whew! Who would have thunk it?

eek

Eli

Re: Protestants Convert More Eastern Catholics #5231 07/19/06 01:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,527
Ray S. Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,527
Joel Badal,

Are you an Evangelical Christian?

Do you not have a mission that converts Chaldean Christians into Evangelicals?\

BTW, I do appreciate you coming to this forum and stating your position.

Yours in Christ

Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3