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Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5281
08/21/03 04:15 AM
08/21/03 04:15 AM
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Posts: 845
On The Way
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Halychanyn Offline OP
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The Supreme Court of the United States has refused to grant an emergency stay of a lower Federal Court order requiring the removal of a monument the in Courthouse housing the Supreme Court of the State of Alabama, paving the way for its removal.

The news reports that I have read state that contempt of court fines up to $5,000 per day may be levied against the high court.

"Christian" groups are said to be organizing prayer vigils and other events.

Comments?

Yours,

kl

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5282
08/21/03 04:18 AM
08/21/03 04:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
Diak Offline
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Perhaps the scales of justice and other similar symbols (Athena, etc.) should also be removed by this line of thinking since they also are or were religuous symbols for pagans. In fact, every statue or tablet in a public place can have religuous significance for someone, so let's rip them all out.

This is neoiconoclasm.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5283
08/21/03 05:12 AM
08/21/03 05:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Irondale,AL
Pani Rose Offline
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Irondale,AL
One thing for sure, my hat is off to Alan Keyes. He is down there standing with them. The only national leader to do so.

Living in the middle of the Bible Belt is interesting to say the least. One doesn't tamper with God's Words easily here.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5284
08/21/03 01:33 PM
08/21/03 01:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 339
New Jersey
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Theophilos Offline
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New Jersey
Krylos Leader:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Why the quotation marks around "Christian"?

Just curious.

In keeping with the progressive secularization of our post-industrial society, I suggest that the Supreme Court no longer open each session by announcing "Oyez, Oyez, Oyez... God Save the United States and this Honorable Court!"

The late Leo Pfeffer must be very proud.

In Christ,
Theophilos

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5285
08/21/03 02:09 PM
08/21/03 02:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,196
Columbus, Ohio
Sharon Mech Offline
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Columbus, Ohio
Personally I support the removal order. The judge put the monument in there on his own, and has refused offers of space to display it elsewhere not on public property.

The USA is not a "Christian Nation" (assuming there really is such a beast). Hindus, Moslems, Atheists, Animists, Sikhs and Jains should have the same expectation of justice as do Baptists, Orthodox Jews and Catholics. Prominent display of a major symbol of one religious group in a government building in the United States is simply wrong.

Pullin' on my asbestos underwear....


Sharon

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5286
08/21/03 02:59 PM
08/21/03 02:59 PM
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Halychanyn Offline OP
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Theophilios:

The news reports I read did not elaborate on their use of the word "Christian" and, thus, I was not sure to whom they were referring. Hence the use of quotation marks.

kl

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5287
08/21/03 03:44 PM
08/21/03 03:44 PM
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Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
Diak Offline
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The general consensus of the people there seems to favor it staying. I guess that doesn't count for much anymore.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5288
08/21/03 04:17 PM
08/21/03 04:17 PM
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Posts: 641
VA
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Annie_SFO Offline
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VA
I have always been amused (and I mean amused in a sad way) how we went from rejecting the establishment of state religion to this sort of judicial nonsense.

When I was in public high school, they went back and forth in my state about whether or not we could have a moment of silence in homeroom , say the Pledge of Allegiance as a group (because of the phrase "under God"), and/or conduct student-led prayer in small groups in the cafeteria during lunch or before or after school. Our vice-principal, God rest him (he recently passed on), announced one day in the midst of all the legal wrangling that he "could personally give a damn what the judges and so-called justices said, he was going to continue to allow us to make our own decisions about whether to pray or not to pray and that we could think whatever we want, or pray whatever we want, in our own consciences, during the moment of silence." Groups of kids of various sorts continued to pray in our school cafeteria. He gave us our moment of silence every morning and continued to after the practice was allegedly verboten. And he read the Pledge over the loudspeaker and we could listen or not, but everyone was quiet out of respect. Frankly, we loved the guy. He ran a tight ship, but he treated us like adults. And I really think, all legal posturing aside, that he was right in his analysis regarding student prayer.

Quote
Originally posted by Krylos Leader:
The Supreme Court of the United States has refused to grant an emergency stay of a lower Federal Court order requiring the removal of a monument the in Courthouse housing the Supreme Court of the State of Alabama, paving the way for its removal.

The news reports that I have read state that contempt of court fines up to $5,000 per day may be levied against the high court.

"Christian" groups are said to be organizing prayer vigils and other events.

Comments?

Yours,

kl

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5289
08/21/03 04:25 PM
08/21/03 04:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 407
Baltimore, MD
Mikey Stilts Offline
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Baltimore, MD
While I find it lamentable that this piece of Western judicial HISTORY is being removed because some people find it offensive (as opposed to the thousands of homeless and destitute whose plight I find to be offensive), it doesn't phase me one bit. Christianity thrived in ancient Rome, when it was outlawed. I am not a Christian because it will advance my position in society or because society deems it "good" to be one.

I am a Christian because I am madly in love with my God and through that love can see the truth in all that He has revealed. My faith is not hindered in the slightest by the continual decline of Western civilization and its inevitable fall, much like Rome 1600 years ago which rotted from the inside out. If anything, it is only strengthened.

What I find to be the most lamentable is that people are so wrapped up in finding ideas offensive when there are far more concrete things that are much more offensive to humanity in general.

feeling cynical today,
mikey.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5290
08/21/03 04:28 PM
08/21/03 04:28 PM
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Posts: 2,217
Illinois
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Lawrence Offline
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Illinois
When our parents were kids, such a thing would have been unimagineable. Then again, so would legalized abortion, couples shacking up, openly homosexual Bishops, anyone being openly homosexual, and the destruction of the family.

It never ceases to amaze me when I see signs, bumper stickers etc that read "God Bless America". Bless what ??? I think "God Save America" is far more appropriate.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5291
08/21/03 05:44 PM
08/21/03 05:44 PM
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Posts: 641
VA
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Annie_SFO Offline
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VA
I like "God Bless America" myself. I can't imagine a country I'd rather call myself citizen of.


Quote
Originally posted by Lawrence:
It never ceases to amaze me when I see signs, bumper stickers etc that read "God Bless America". Bless what ??? I think "God Save America" is far more appropriate.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5292
08/21/03 06:20 PM
08/21/03 06:20 PM
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Posts: 323
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Columcille Offline
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Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
>>>The USA is not a "Christian Nation" (assuming there really is such a beast).<<<

I find it funny how people always associate the 10 Commandments with Christianity. I was under the impression that the 10 commandments were given to the Jews on Mt.Sinai. I also find it lamentable that "Christians" would support their removal. I wonder which commandment the opposition finds disagreeable: is it the one that says you shouldn't murder? The one that prohibits stealing....perhaps certain people disagree with the one that states that one should not commit adultery. The 10 commandments are general rules which any decent person should subscribe to, Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc.

As for "GD bless America"... I prefer "America, bless GD."

Columcille

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5293
08/22/03 04:57 AM
08/22/03 04:57 AM
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Posts: 2,502
West Coast
Stephanos I Offline
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Maybe it is time for all right believing Christians both Orthodox and Catholic to succede from the Union.
Stephanos I

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5294
08/22/03 12:57 PM
08/22/03 12:57 PM
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Posts: 1,235
Philadelphia
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Andrew J. Rubis Offline
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Philadelphia
Alabama, where they still know who God is. Bravo!

Perhaps the South may rise again?

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5295
08/22/03 06:57 PM
08/22/03 06:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 218
Mid-Atlantic
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Mid-Atlantic
I am not a expert on the Bible, nor do I play one on TV, but before we expouse posting or not posting the 10 Commandments in public buildings/schools, we should understand that there are three versions of the Commandments with some of our fellow Christian and Jewish brothers and sisters "grouping" the verses differently.

In the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), the "Commandments" are at Exodus 20:2-17, Exodus 34:12-26, and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. The first version of the 10 Commandments was engraved on stone by God. Because Moses broke the original set, God had to create a copy, as recorded in Exodus 34. The third set in Deuteronomy was in the form of a review of the previous two sets. Although both Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 are very similar in language, Exodus 20 is the most commonly used set. However, some faith groups may promote one of the other versions. The Exodus 20 versions contain 16 verses. Jews, Protestants and Roman Catholics have selected different formats for combining them into Ten Commandments. Whether the Exodus 34 or the Deuteronomy 5 version, one is instructed not to covet thy neighbors male or female slave. Does this mean slavery is okay? Could be interesting posting this version for all to see.

In Exodus 34, the first two Commandments and the exhortation to rest on the Sabbath resemble the other two Commandment versions. But note the remaining seven Exodus 34 Commandments:
•III) You shall keep the festival of unleavened bread. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.
•(IV) All that first opens the womb is mine, all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep. The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. No one shall appear before me empty-handed.
•(VI) You shall observe the festival of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year. Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel. For I will cast out nations before you, and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land when you go up to appear before the LORD your God three times in the year.
•(VII) You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven, and
•(VIII) the sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning.
•(IX) The best of the first fruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the LORD your God.
•(X) You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk.

In addition, The Commandments are supplemented by 603 other rules and regulations elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Many of these rules and regulation are no longer observed by the various Christian denominations/sects or by non-Orthodox Jews.

Although the 10 Commandments are held in high respect by Christians, two of them are routinely "broken" by most Christians—at least when they are interpreted literally:
• The prohibition against "any graven image, or any likeness of any thing...," if interpreted literally, would seem to forbid a wide range of objects, including a statue in a church, a cross, a crucifix, or even to a photograph of a person. However, many denominations do not interpret this passage in isolation, or do not interpret it literally. This allows Eastern Orthodox churches to display icons, Roman Catholic churches to house statues, and many Protestant churches to contain drawings and/or photographs.
• Reserving the Sabbath (Saturday) as a day of rest. The vast majority of churches have their main services on Sunday. Only sabbaterian denominations, like the Seventh Day Adventists, celebrate on Saturday. But, regardless of which day is observed as the Sabbath, how many people keep it as a day of rest?

Just some "kosher" food for thought.

CIX!

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