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Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5296
08/22/03 07:05 PM
08/22/03 07:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,716
Sacramento, Ca
Brian Offline
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Brian  Offline
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Posts: 1,716
Sacramento, Ca
Quote
Originally posted by Andrew J. Rubis:
Alabama, where they still know who God is. Bravo!

Perhaps the South may rise again?
Well, considering the history of the Civil Rights movement, I don't think that state can make any claim to "knowing God" Can Any State or civil authority???

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5297
08/22/03 07:08 PM
08/22/03 07:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,716
Sacramento, Ca
Brian Offline
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Brian  Offline
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Posts: 1,716
Sacramento, Ca
Quote
Originally posted by Diak:
The general consensus of the people there seems to favor it staying. I guess that doesn't count for much anymore.
The general consensus of the people there at one time supported slavery and then Jim Crow.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5298
08/22/03 07:56 PM
08/22/03 07:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 323
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Columcille Offline
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Columcille  Offline
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Posts: 323
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Quote
Originally posted by Brian:
Quote
Originally posted by Diak:
[b] The general consensus of the people there seems to favor it staying. I guess that doesn't count for much anymore.
The general consensus of the people there at one time supported slavery and then Jim Crow. [/b]
So you equate supporting the public display of the 10 commandments with support of slavery?

Having read alot of your posts of this BB, I'm not surprised that you would make such a foolish comparison.

Columcille

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5299
08/22/03 08:19 PM
08/22/03 08:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 915
St. Louis, MO
L
LatinTrad Offline
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LatinTrad  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 915
St. Louis, MO
Quote
Originally posted by moncobyz:
I am not a expert on the Bible, nor do I play one on TV, but before we expouse posting or not posting the 10 Commandments in public buildings/schools, we should understand that there are three versions of the Commandments with some of our fellow Christian and Jewish brothers and sisters "grouping" the verses differently.

[. . .]

In Exodus 34, the first two Commandments and the exhortation to rest on the Sabbath resemble the other two Commandment versions. But note the remaining seven Exodus 34 Commandments:
•III) You shall keep the festival of unleavened bread. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.
•(IV) All that first opens the womb is mine, all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep. The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. No one shall appear before me empty-handed.
•(VI) You shall observe the festival of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year. Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel. For I will cast out nations before you, and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land when you go up to appear before the LORD your God three times in the year.
•(VII) You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven, and
•(VIII) the sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning.
•(IX) The best of the first fruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the LORD your God.
•(X) You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk.

In addition, The Commandments are supplemented by 603 other rules and regulations elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Many of these rules and regulation are no longer observed by the various Christian denominations/sects or by non-Orthodox Jews.

[etc.]
Monco, in the OT you gotta distinguish among moral precepts that are already contained in the Natural Law, and those that aren't. The ones contained in the natural law are binding on all men as such, for all time. Of the other Divine commands in the OT, some are no longer relevant because of the Incarnation and Redemption.

LatinTrad

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5300
08/22/03 08:20 PM
08/22/03 08:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 915
St. Louis, MO
L
LatinTrad Offline
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LatinTrad  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 915
St. Louis, MO
Quote
Originally posted by Columcille:
[QUOTE]
[qb] [QUOTE][qb]
Having read alot of your posts of this BB, I'm not surprised that you would make such a foolish comparison.

Columcille
NOT necessary.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5301
08/22/03 08:52 PM
08/22/03 08:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 323
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Columcille Offline
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Columcille  Offline
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Posts: 323
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Quote
Originally posted by LatinTrad:
Quote
Originally posted by Columcille:
[b] [QUOTE]
[qb] [QUOTE][qb]
Having read alot of your posts of this BB, I'm not surprised that you would make such a foolish comparison.

Columcille
NOT necessary. [/b]
Perhaps not. I'm having what you call, "a very bad day." I apologize for offense given. I shouldn't post here when I am already upset about something.

bowing out with apologies....

Columcille

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5302
08/22/03 11:22 PM
08/22/03 11:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,716
Sacramento, Ca
Brian Offline
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Brian  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,716
Sacramento, Ca
Quote
Originally posted by Columcille:
Quote
Originally posted by Brian:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Diak:
[b] The general consensus of the people there seems to favor it staying. I guess that doesn't count for much anymore.
The general consensus of the people there at one time supported slavery and then Jim Crow. [/b]
So you equate supporting the public display of the 10 commandments with support of slavery?

Columcille [/b]
Not at all. I was getting at the real obsession at getting "field polls" and "focus groups" to try to get an idea of "consensus"- it is often illusory.

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5303
08/25/03 10:57 AM
08/25/03 10:57 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 383
North Carolina
Ladyhawke1017 Offline
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Ladyhawke1017  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 383
North Carolina
Quote
Originally posted by Columcille:

I find it funny how people always associate the 10 Commandments with Christianity. I was under the impression that the 10 commandments were given to the Jews on Mt.Sinai. I also find it lamentable that "Christians" would support their removal. I wonder which commandment the opposition finds disagreeable: is it the one that says you shouldn't murder? The one that prohibits stealing....perhaps certain people disagree with the one that states that one should not commit adultery. Columcille
I agree...while I could understand how some would have a problem with the first two commandments, what is there in the other eight they find objectionable????

Vie

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5304
08/26/03 04:16 AM
08/26/03 04:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Georgia
Logos - Alexis Offline
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Logos - Alexis  Offline
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Posts: 4,678
Georgia
This touches base for a lot of Southerners (at least around here), because our religion is so very central to our lives. What is happening in Montgomery right now is also happening around here. In Bartow County, Georgia, there is an almost identical case, although is hasn't reached the national level.

I think us Southerners take this for granted. I go to a private Christian school, but the public schools around here openly have prayer, along with ENORMOUS prayer meetings at the school every morning. Before EVERY sports event around here, the officiators lead the fans in prayer. Before the public school's football games, the National Anthem is sung and a prayer is said. In my soccer game a week ago, the refs led both teams and all the fans in prayer. In the soccer tournament my school hosted this weekend, our Athletic Director did the same thing. No one asked if it was okay. No one had to.

Sometimes I thank my lucky stars I was born in the South.

Logos Teen

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5305
08/26/03 01:13 PM
08/26/03 01:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 845
On The Way
H
Halychanyn Offline OP
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Halychanyn  Offline OP
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On The Way
Dear Teen:

I remember being assigned to ref a soccer match here in the burbs between two "Christian" high schools. My assistant referees and I began walking down the halfway stripe toward the center circle at the start of the match when the teams all of a sudden started walking toward each other.

After a few seconds of panic on our part that a fight was going to ensue, the guys took a knee and prayed together. Certainly not something we're used to up here.

Yours,

kl

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5306
08/26/03 01:49 PM
08/26/03 01:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,196
Columbus, Ohio
Sharon Mech Offline
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Sharon Mech  Offline
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Posts: 1,196
Columbus, Ohio
As someone who grew up Jewish, I would ask you to remember the Jew, the Muslim, the Hindu, the Buddhist, the Jain, the ___________ who are in school with you, who are at the football game with you, who work with you.

We are uncomfortable when we hear of Christians living under Sharia. Why (aside from the fact that we are talking about culture rather than law) should this be different?


Sharon

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5307
08/26/03 02:13 PM
08/26/03 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 323
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Columcille Offline
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Columcille  Offline
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Posts: 323
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Quote
Originally posted by Sharon Mech:
As someone who grew up Jewish, I would ask you to remember the Jew, the Muslim, the Hindu, the Buddhist, the Jain, the ___________ who are in school with you, who are at the football game with you, who work with you.

We are uncomfortable when we hear of Christians living under Sharia. Why (aside from the fact that we are talking about culture rather than law) should this be different?


Sharon
Sharia Law is much more extreme then what we are talking about here. In the U.S, non-Christians don't have to pay a special tax, don't have to study their "holy" books in private, or face death if they try to convert a Christian to something else.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the comparison between Christian kids having prayer meeting of their own freewill and accord and Sharia Law.

Columcille

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5308
08/26/03 03:11 PM
08/26/03 03:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,196
Columbus, Ohio
Sharon Mech Offline
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Sharon Mech  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,196
Columbus, Ohio
Columcille,

It goes beyond that. When a public school day begins with prayer, when prayer is a public part of public school sports activities, and when the 10 Commandments are "enshrined" by personal fiat in the courthouse and hundreds of your neighbors rally to keep it there - that's more than a few students having a prayer meeting.

I fully agree that no non-Christian in the US is subject to restrictive laws - I belieeve I already said that. But when not only popular culture but also governmental entities support one particular religious tradition, there's a BIG problem.

Sharon

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5309
08/26/03 03:32 PM
08/26/03 03:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 915
St. Louis, MO
L
LatinTrad Offline
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LatinTrad  Offline
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L

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 915
St. Louis, MO
Even if one religious tradition leads to life eternal, and the others do not?

Re: Ban on 10 Comandments in Public Building #5310
08/26/03 03:32 PM
08/26/03 03:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 402
Pennsylvania
J
J. Michael Thompson Offline
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J. Michael Thompson  Offline
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J

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 402
Pennsylvania
Glory to Jesus Christ!

This is not in my area of expertise, and I am hesitant to post because of that. However:

The churches who first developed parochial school systems in the USA (Roman and Eastern Catholics, members of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) did so partially in response to the "generic Protestant" atmosphere which prevailed in the US public schools. Scripture readings, prayers, public testimony, and a great deal of peer pressure, were all from the Baptist/Methodist/Presbyterian side of the world. And this was also true in orphanages, in hospitals, in prisons, any place that was "secular" in nature.

If you haven'te been part of a group that's "excluded," especially as a child, you don't know how insidious that can be. You might try asking a ByzCat or UkCat kid who goes to a RC parochial school about other kids reacting to our "funny" way of making the Sign of the Cross, for example.

At one time, our society was less complicated than it is today. Nonetheless, it is that way in 2003.

And, if you really think that this cannot happen, you need to talk to non-Mormons who live in Utah and the surrounding states, where Mormons form a plurality or better in the population. You'll find out just how much the "secular" environment changes. And you won't like it much, either.

(Prof.) J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

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