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#54647 - 12/09/05 12:07 AM horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
lm Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 942
Loc: usa
Recently I have heard that the Creed (along with a whole series of other prayers and psalms) will be newly translated and that it will be changed to accommodate what has become, in recent years, known as “horizontal gender inclusivity.” As I understand it, one of the changes in the Creed will be “for us and our salvation,” leaving out the word, “men,” despite the fact that the Greek word, “anthropos,” is in the original Greek text.

First of all, to consider that “for us men” is non-inclusive is to misunderstand the English language. The word, “man,” according to the 1971 edition of the Oxford English Dictionary (1982 reprint), the most authoritative dictionary of the English language, means a human being irrespective of sex or age. Therefore the notion that the term, “men,” is not inclusive of women is simply false. The idea that the word, “men,” is non-inclusive has been conjured up within the last thirty years and is based upon a claim by feminists that the word is sexist. See for example the most current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary which states: “The generic use of man to refer to “human beings in general” is now widely regarded as old-fashioned or sexist.”

A recent survey, as reported by Catholic World Report, provides interesting statistics in regard to the use of gender inclusive language.

In February 1997, the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at the University of Connecticut surveyed a thousand Catholic Americans concerning the use of inclusive language. (A poll this size is considered reliable to an overall accuracy of within three percent.) The results of the survey, published in the March 1997 Catholic World Report (CWR), revealed the following:

Most Catholics sense no need for new liturgical translations.

The overwhelming majority of Catholics are unfamiliar with the term "inclusive language."

When the rationale for inclusive language is explained to them, most Catholics reject it.

When asked to choose between two sets of actual Biblical texts-one drawn from a standard translation, the other from a new inclusive-language version-Catholics choose the standard translations by comfortable margins.

The preference for standard English holds for all demographic groups: men and women, old and young people, daily communicants and lapsed Catholics.

The preference for standard English is strongest among the people who adhere most closely to Catholic teaching and practice; it is weakest among those who rarely receive the sacraments and those who reject Church teachings.

What strikes me the most about the proposed change in the Creed is how western and secular the change is. Why worry about correcting the Latin uses which have crept into the Byzantine Church such as the filioque, when this proposed change is a marriage with modernity and modern feminism?

The proposed change to the Creed also makes no sense in light of the recent instruction on translations for the Roman Liturgy:

In many languages there exist nouns and pronouns denoting both genders, masculine and feminine, together in a single term. The insistence that such a usage should be changed is not necessarily to be regarded as the effect or the manifestation of an authentic development of the language as such. Even if it may be necessary by means of catechesis to ensure that such words continue to be understood in the "inclusive" sense just described, it may not be possible to employ different words in the translations themselves without detriment to the precise intended meaning of the text, the correlation of its various words or expressions, or its aesthetic qualities. When the original text, for example, employs a single term in expressing the interplay between the individual and the universality and unity of the human family or community (such as the Hebrew word 'adam, the Greek anthropos, or the Latin homo), this property of the language of the original text should be maintained in the translation. Just as has occurred at other times in history, the Church herself must freely decide upon the system of language that will serve her doctrinal mission most effectively, and should not be subject to externally imposed linguistic norms that are detrimental to that mission.

While I understand that Liturgicam Authenticum does not apply to the Eastern Churches, nonetheless why should the guiding principles be any different?

The phrase in the Creed, "for us men and our salvation came down from heaven...and was made man," seems to correspond directly to the reference in 1 Timothy 2:5. If the Church is to be consistent, it should seek to make the same changes in Scripture itself. For example, 1 Timothy 2:5, " For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...," in a Protestant Bible, is being rendered, "For there is one God and mediator between God and human beings, Christ Jesus, himself human.." Moreover, the Creed as set forth in “The Catechism of the Catholic Church” uses the phrase, “for us men.” Because this catechism is normative for the entire Catholic Church, are we to assume that the Church has there erred? And of course, what are we to assume of all of Scripture where the terms, man or men, are used to represent human beings irrespective of sex or age? This of course is most evident right from the beginning wherein we learn that God created man; male and female he created them.

Sadly, it looks like we're entering a new era in which we are concerned with being politically correct rather than making correct translations of our ancient liturgy and creed. These changes may also further the divide with our Orthodox brethren.

Cardinal John Henry Newman, in a sermon, “The Gospel, a trust committed to us,” wrote:

The grant of grace in Baptism follows upon the accurate enunciation of one or two words; and if so much depends on one sacred observance, even down to the letter in which it is committed to us, why should not at least the substantial sense of other truths, nay, even the primitive wording of them, have some special claim upon the Church’s safe guardianship of them? St. Paul’s Articles of Belief are precise and individual; why should we not take them as we find them?

Here is a link to that sermon:
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/parochial/volume2/sermon22.html

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#54648 - 12/09/05 12:33 AM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
Hieromonk Elias Offline
Administrator
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Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1746
Loc: Pennsylvania
Dear lm,

Are you speaking about a new traslation of the Roman Catholic Liturgy?

the unworthy,
Elias

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#54649 - 12/09/05 12:45 AM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
Orthodox Pyrohy Offline
Forum Keilbasa Sleuth
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Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 1502
Loc: In the Alleghenies, the mother...
I have seen the Creed read, "For us and our salvation" in a UGCC.

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#54650 - 12/09/05 01:28 AM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
snydersquare Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Clearwater, FL
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lm:
[QB] While I understand that Liturgicam Authenticum does not apply to the Eastern Churches, nonetheless why should the guiding principles be any different?

Thank God this doesn't apply to the Orthodox Churches!

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#54651 - 12/09/05 04:03 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
lm Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 942
Loc: usa
My understanding is that these changes in translation may occur in the Ruthenian Church. lm

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#54652 - 12/09/05 04:50 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
snydersquare Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Clearwater, FL
Frankly, I’m tired of feminism changing the words of our Liturgy and Holy Bible with their gender neutral vocabulary. This brings to mind the damage (and massive loss of members) that liberals and feminists have inflicted upon the mainline Protestant Churches in the U.S. Are the Roman Catholic and Byzantine Catholic Churches soon to follow? Thank God there is an alternative: The Orthodox Church Welcomes You!

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#54653 - 12/09/05 05:28 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3975
Loc: Washington, PA
The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese uses horizontal inclusive language in its English translations.

Fr. Deacon Lance
_________________________
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

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#54654 - 12/09/05 05:34 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
Joe T Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 2927
Loc: Ohio
Quote:
Originally posted by lm:
My understanding is that these changes in translation may occur in the Ruthenian Church. lm
Like "Blessed is the one" rather than "Blessed is the man" at Vespers? (cf. The Office of Vespers, Sisters of St. Basil the Great, Uniontown, PA).

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#54655 - 12/09/05 05:36 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
Joe T Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 2927
Loc: Ohio
Quote:
Originally posted by Deacon Lance:
The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese uses horizontal inclusive language in its English translations.

Fr. Deacon Lance
So?

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#54656 - 12/09/05 05:45 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
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Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3975
Loc: Washington, PA
Well, one of the reasonings against I have seen put out is the Orthodox don't do it. They do. Personally I don't like inclusive language, on the otherhand I don't see the big deal changing brethren to brothers and sisters or mankind to humankind.

The Metropolitan Cantor Institute materials have Blessed is the man... Since the Byzantine Church has interpreted this as a Christological Psalm this is important. But if you don't interpret this Psalm Christologically, like for example Theordore of Mopsuestia or the Syriac Churches who use his exegetical tradition, man or one or those is probably not important.

Fr. Deacon Lance
_________________________
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#54657 - 12/09/05 05:58 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
snydersquare Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Clearwater, FL
Quote:
Originally posted by Deacon Lance:
The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese uses horizontal inclusive language in its English translations.

Fr. Deacon Lance
The OCA, Antiochians, and the RCOR do not use horizontal inclusive language in their English translations. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the GOA suffers from many problems - pls add this to the list!

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#54658 - 12/09/05 06:03 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
Hieromonk Elias Offline
Administrator
Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1746
Loc: Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally posted by lm:
My understanding is that these changes in translation may occur in the Ruthenian Church. lm
My understanding is that they will not.

the unworthy,
Elias

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#54659 - 12/09/05 06:23 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
AMM Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 3364
Loc: Etc
There's an interesting article, which I'm guessing most here have read, in the Touchstone archives called East Meets English .

Personally, I have an intense dislike of inclusive language and prefer what would probably be termed sacral English (which luckily enough my church uses).

Andrew

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#54660 - 12/09/05 07:05 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
snydersquare Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Clearwater, FL
In the OCA, the official Liturgy translation was issued in 1967 - it is still the norm, and
it is not gender neutral. There is no movement or even discussion concerning employing gender neutral language in the OCA. THE ORTHODOX CHURCH WELCOMES YOU!

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#54661 - 12/09/05 07:36 PM Re: horizontal gender inclusive language in the Liturgy
Our Lady's slave Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 6322
Loc: Glasgow, Scotland
Elderly puzzled person here would very much like to know exactly what

Quote:
horizontal gender inclusive language
I'm absolutely sick and fed up of all this jargon that is being used now.

Why can't folk use clear English ?

Anhelyna

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