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Joined: Oct 2004
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Quote
Originally posted by Ladyhawke1017:
Recently on a RC forum that I frequent, one member actually threatened to leave, not just the forum, but the Church as a whole, because she said this past election showed her that Christianity in the Church was very rare.
[/QB]
This was posted on another thread and it got me to thinking.

I think that Christian people like to think that there's something wrong with people who reject our view of the world and that we're unwilling to acknowledge that it's not as simple as *them* rejecting Christ's teachings.

I've been a Catholic all of my life and have witnessed a lot of terrible things being done in the name of God and His Church.

I firmly believe that there is a 'healthy' Christainity but I think it's hard to find.

I've had problems on this forum (obviously) and I think I'm beginning to see that my problem is basically that I neither respect nor like Christian people so I immediately assume the worst in what is written here. I recognize that my lack of respect isn't fair and apologize for that.

Unfortunately I think that I have spent too much time in the "unhealthy" Christianity. As a way of explaining myself, I have spent many years trying to be a good catholic but have been told over and over again that everything about me is wrong. And now I'm just bitter and angry. When somene here criticizes me or disagrees with me I automatically assume that the same judgment is there when it probably isn't.

By "unhealthy" Chrisitanity I mean "unhealthy" for me. I did the trad 'thing' for awhile which I think was a very 'unhealthy' spirituality for me. Other people thrive in that kind of environment. For me, it felt like constant judgment.

What I'm getting at is that there are many in the Church who because of their personality and their past (it's a combination) are predisposed to feel very judged by the way catholicism is explained.

I'm having a difficult time explaining myself.

As an example, I've known some good holy priests in my life and I've observed how they've approached different people. It seems to me that they instinctly know (I'd say this is proof of their holiness) how to treat a person.

The person discussed above might have come into contact with some people who seemed to her to be very nasty and judgmental. These people might have been nice people but talked to her in a way that didn't 'fit' with her personality and therefore rubbed her the wrong way. Or unfortunately they could have been actually nasty and judgmental.

What I'm trying to articulate is that people have had different pasts and different personalities and so we need to 'temper' our messge to account for that. I think unfortunately many of us are unable to accommodate different ways of expressing the truth.

So on that note, I need to get over this anger that I have towards Christians. Because of this anger I can't have a rational discussion with you. So it's probably best if I go away for a while.

Because of this anger I've been unnecessarily harsh to some of you and I apologize. You're being 'punished' by me for something that you didn't do.

But I beg you to please understand that there are many people out there like me. Don't just write us off as stupid or disobedient "cafeteria" Catholics.

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{{Jennifer}}
You are loved; believe me, you are so loved.
"healthy" Christianity starts within YOU. Not with other folk. May I try to explain that? I was blessed to be "outside the Church" in total isolation for many years. There God found me. And I learnt along a hard way that many in the Church are not in the Church; and that many not in the Church are in the Church.
and that we are each responsible only for our own sins; "keep your eye on your own page" is a good idea.Isn;t that enough!!! As Jesus says over and over; look to your faults.....
I learnt too that Jesus is all; relationships with other folk cannot replace the relationship with Him. and that it is that relationship, face to face with Jesus that we each bring into the Church to enrich and strengthen His Body. If you do nto have that relationship right, how can you like or love anyone? if you do, WOW! He told me one day as I was driving. "You are all I have on earth; My Hands, my voice and if you fail me I cannot be there. And souls and lives are lost".
You CANNOT "like" everyone!!! But you can strive to LOVE everyone. Because Jesus loves them.
I am not RC; folk say I am more RC than they are. Because at the base of every real faith is Jesus. I find some RC hard too;some drive me mad! But I love them and go to Mass as an act of unity and love; I do not have the right or need to do else.and I have suffered abuse there many times but still go back. Because Jesus did and does. We all fall and fail and fall short all the time; the way with Jesus is the hardest there is. And we are all always "beginners". And the world makes that hard for us. Yes, take a break; that is always good; but make it a constuctive break, not a failure break.
Email is a very brittle way to communicate; so easy to say the wrong thing; so hard to undo.

Try to be with Jesus in quietude; none of us can do anything without Him. The world tells us we can; it is wrong. He is our life blood, our breathing, our heartbeat. The key to all is humility. To know we are nothing and have nothing; that we are all bruised and scarred by what others have done; all lepers who need a BIG HUG!!! So I send you A BIG HUG!!You are my sister -in-Christ; always. {{JENNIFER}}} If you need me , mail me via the web site. And always in my prayers http://www.iol.ie/~anchorhold/

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Allright but I was not attacking you. I merely asked if you had proof of your claims. That is not "contentious." If you make a claim you should be expected to back it up. That's not an "attack."

I also don't think it's fair to say that you're leaving because of one person (when we all know you're referring to me).

I've said all I want to say on this and I hope you have as well.

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AHA!! There you go again!! Why spoil it now? After that other lovely mail? Jennifer; read what you have just written, please. The tone of it? Why could you not just leave well alone? so much angerThis is not a courtroom , you know; is a Christian Forum, where trust and love SHOULD reign. ... . As Fr Gregory also said. I do not have to justify anything.especially when there is not even simple politness. Please do not bite a loving hand; sooner or later the hand gets taken away, even when we obey Jesus and turn the other cheek.Please, re-read what you have just written; and reread what I wrote; see the difference? Bless you; I came back to delete the bad thread only and found a mail from Fr Gregory that helped me so much. And as I said I AM ILL. If you really "need" to have the last word, that is fine by me; go ahead, my dear. But Jesus always has the first and last word, and that is love... Alpha and Omega.. Alleluia. And it is way past my sleep time and I am exhausted, but needed to try to sort this; failed again!!And now I AM going to delete that thread. Or try to:)may the Lord bless you and keep you; may the Lord shine the light of His Countenance upon you and be gracious unto you" AMEN!

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Originally posted by Irish Anchoress:

AHA!! There you go again!! Why spoil it now? After that other lovely mail? Jennifer; read what you have just written, please. The tone of it? Why could you not just leave well alone? so much angerThis is not a courtroom , you know; is a Christian Forum, where trust and love SHOULD reign. ...
Dear Sister,

why do you seem to take every challenge to your posts as an attack against your person?

Christian

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Dear Christian:

Precisely, this was my question a while back in the Christian News forum which remained unanswered but deftly deflected to another unfortunate person.

We should call spade a spade!

Amado

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Just when I thought it was safe to come back ... :rolleyes:

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Dear Jennifer,

I have bitten my tongue until now, but I must say that your attitude is out of line in many cases, and really is putting a damper on the feeling of this wonderful forum, a forum that was generally full of respect and Christ centered love in its posters. You have been warmly welcomed and treated respectfully, yet, you seem to refuse to return that kindness.

As for your comments to Irish Anchoress, I think that sisters, brothers, monks, and priests need a little more respect than they get sometimes from the laity. Many of them have sacrificed secular lives for the service of God, that the rest of us have not...marriage, companionship, socializing, children, careers, travel, ownership of material goods and homes, etc., etc., etc. Besides all that, they either pray for the world, and individuals, or cater to the ministerial and liturgical needs of a parish, and for that, I am eternally, and HUMBLY grateful.

If I may make a humble suggestion to you since you publically posted an apology and some explanation of your attitude here being due to your intrinsic resentment towards Christians...

Take a break from religious knowledge, and from religious forums, etc., Stop reading about religion. Stop analyzing the Church. Find God. Become a little child again. Get down on your knees and simply 'knock'. He WILL answer, for HE promised this in the Bible. Talk to God, *not to us*, about your concerns,your feelings, your pain, your hopes, your prejudices, and your bitternesses, and really try to feel His compassion, for it is there.

Cry (sometimes tears, especially in women, can be a catharsis for pent up emotions and bitterness) and try to open your heart.

Leave aside intellectual theological pursuits, and pick up one of the Gospels and really get to know Christ, and what His message, His ministry and His life was about.Like Irish Anchoress and Father Gregory said, it is about you and Christ, not us or any members of *any* church. Appreciate the beauty of His creation.

Find your spiritual side first, and then VERY slowly, like a child, find a spiritual Father, and grow in the the Church. Infact, I believe that the Catholic Church has a program available in many parts of the country (I once heard about it on EWTN--perhaps you can write to the folks there about it) that is helping people just like you SIMPLY find the BASIC spirituality of Christ 101! Then move on from there.

I guarantee that all this will slowly bring joy and peace to your heart, humility to your soul, and the knowledge that each and every individual, even the most unloveable ones, are created in the image of God, and that He loves us all equally. You might then start loving your fellow man, and most especially your fellow Christians...

and something that has worked for me in my spiritual life...avoid those people which you know that you will never love...we don't need to be social creatures just because society says so. We don't need to put ourselves in situations which will cause us temptation to sin. Find a few companions/friends that are good for you, and leave the others alone.

This is my humble advice for what it is worth.

Yours in Christ,
Alice, a sinner, just like everybody else!

P.S. I will tell you something I once told a member of my family...sometimes the reason that people feel unliked by others is because those others sense that you do not like them. Negative feelings are very contagious.

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Dear Alice,

Actually, your wonderful words spoke to me very powerfully!

I think I'm going on a spiritual pilgrimage to do just what you've said!

Thank you, my dear!

I too have experienced what I feel is emotional abuse here.

That this could be all wrong and from my point of view only.

I DO take things too seriously. But so do those who come after me . . . wink

In any event, you've helped me realize that I need some spiritual renewal and refocus.

And there is someone in our parish who can be of direct help to me, now that I think of it.

God bless you!

Alex

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Quote
Originally posted by Irish Anchoress:
AHA!! There you go again!! Why spoil it now? After that other lovely mail? Jennifer; read what you have just written, please. The tone of it? Why could you not just leave well alone? so much angerThis is not a courtroom , you know; is a Christian Forum, where trust and love SHOULD reign. ... . As Fr Gregory also said. I do not have to justify anything.especially when there is not even simple politness. Please do not bite a loving hand; sooner or later the hand gets taken away, even when we obey Jesus and turn the other cheek.Please, re-read what you have just written; and reread what I wrote; see the difference? Bless you; I came back to delete the bad thread only and found a mail from Fr Gregory that helped me so much. And as I said I AM ILL. If you really "need" to have the last word, that is fine by me; go ahead, my dear. But Jesus always has the first and last word, and that is love... Alpha and Omega.. Alleluia. And it is way past my sleep time and I am exhausted, but needed to try to sort this; failed again!!And now I AM going to delete that thread. Or try to:)may the Lord bless you and keep you; may the Lord shine the light of His Countenance upon you and be gracious unto you" AMEN!
So...why don't you apologize to Jennifer for jumping on her, graciously, in love, and set a fine example that way. You've heard by now that she was not attacking you. If you read an attack into it, when it wasn't there, apologize, and show that Christian humilty. wink

Gaudior, who thinks this is about enough.

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+Glory to God for Jennifer and for Sister and for their ideas and their reflections...and their making more complete the many colored tapestry which is the Church of Christ!

Why don't we ALL stop this particular line of posts and simply welcome Sister into our midst? When people feel welcome and appreciated, they tend to relax a bit more and use their natural humor even for more controversial topics. Endless questioning of details seldom really clarifies much of anything. So maybe a word or two of welcome and appreciation for BOTH Sister and Jennifer would do more good than the endless questions and suggestions. (Just my personal thoughts...I could be all 'wet' as usual) biggrin

With my own poor prayers for all of you,
+Father Gregory


+Father Archimandrite Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!

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