Alex, can you or any other of the Ukrainian Catholics who post on here tell about the rite used for receiving the Sacrament of Penance in the Ukrainian Church? I will be going to Confession this coming weekend in preparation for making my Profession of Faith before the Liturgy on Sunday. Keep me in you prayers :-)

Don

Bless, Father Don!

There are some variations in the rite of confession in the civilized part of the Eastern Catholic world that I live in.

But this is the basic rite:

When you approach the priest, you would make the Sign of the Cross and say, "Bless me a sinner, Reverend Father!" Others simply say "Glory to Jesus Christ!"

Then one would tell the Father the last time one confessed, whether that was a good confession in the sense that one didn't keep a particular sin back (and if so, this is what it was), a simple assurance that the Penance was completed and "I have offended the Lord our God with the following sins."

Then follows the enumeration of sins where in the Father may stop one to give a teaching or to ask a question.

One should give a sense of the seriousness of the sin and the number of times etc. but you don't need me to tell you all that.

At the end, one simply says, "And this is all I can remember."

The priest will then jump in with some reflections and teachings by way of help and the like.

He will then prescribe the "pokuta" or penance and ask you to say the Prayer of the Publican as he says the Prayer of Absolution over you. In my parish, the priest places the epitrachelion over you.

The priest then ends with the words of Christ to the woman caught in sin: Go in peace and sin no more.

We could then thank the Priest and reverence his hand with a kiss.

Some churches have those terrible confessionals, but mine has an "open" confession, facing the icon of Christ or the Mother of God.

In some really Eastern parishes, they would also have a Gospel and a Cross in front of you when you kneel down and then it is appropriate to place the index and middle fingers on the book and to kiss both.

May God bless and protect you always in your walk with Him!

Alex

Interesting.

I've *never* seen an Eastern confession where the epitrachelion was not placed over the back (or head, shoulders, etc.) of the penitent. Is it common in some jurisdictions not to use the epitrachelion in this way?

In my own personal experience, the Melkite confession did not involve the Gospel book and cross, but simply the icon of the Holy Face -- however, in the OCA parishes I have visited there has almost always been the Gospel book, a cross and an icon (or two) on a table. Some kneel and some stand.

Brendan

I've *never* seen an Eastern confession where the epitrachelion was not placed over the back (or head, shoulders, etc.) of the penitent. Is it common in some jurisdictions not to use the epitrachelion in this way?

Very latinized Ruthenians use (or formerly used) a confessional booth with a screen.

http://oldworldrus.com

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Serge ]

"Very latinized Ruthenians use (or formerly used) a confessional booth with a screen."

Serge,

I am afraid this is true of most of the parishes in the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, although I believe most priest would do it the traditional way in front of an icon of Christ (on the iconostasis or elsewhere)if asked.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

In my parish, there is a small crying room in the back that Father uses to hear confessions (there is an icon of Christ in there). He will also hear confessions at the Christ icon on the iconostasis. (I always ask for traditional Orthodox confession at the iconostasis). In neither case is there a screen between confessor and penitent.

However, Father does not always lay the epitrachelion on my head - sometimes he just imposes hands.

Good Evening all,
In our parish, we confess in a manner similar to the way the incomparable Alex has describe, though behind the Ikonostas. Father Pastor does place his Epitrachelion on our heads for Absolution.

Don de Kansase,
I confessed to Father Bill on the occasion of my visit to St Joseph. His confessions are in the confessional in the Narthex of the church (the Ikonstas has not been installed there yet). He conducts his confession in a similar manner to the Latin Church, to which you should be familiar. As a suggestion, do NOT use the "Act of Contrition" in the back of the missal. I did, and got a talking to about how God is not an angry Deity and is merciful to those who ask his pardon.

God bless.

Thanks everyone for the advice and explanations...especially Alex and akemner. I will let everyone know how it goes! God bless all here!

Don

Just an FYI.

In the Roman Rite of Penance:

#1: the penitent MUST be allowed to confess anonymously if he/she so wishes
#2: the confessor has the right to DEMAND that the penitent remain anonymous and physically separated from him [the confessor] (hence the box and the grille).

There are historical reasons for this - #2 is specifically to prevent any accusations of impropriety against the confessor.

Please, please, please...This is just for reference and not an argument for the latinization of the Mystery of Penance in the Eastern Catholic Churches. I myself (as stated earlier in this thread) ask for traditional Orthodox confession at the iconostasis, so this certainly isn't a pro-Latin polemic!

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: NDHoosier ]

Don,
Would you mind filling us in on your conversion story, like where you are converting from? My guess is Orthodox because of the profession of faith, but I'm really curious.

God Bless,

Michael

Slava Isusu Christu!

Dear Friend:

Father Steve Greskowiak in his book, Byzantine Catholic Prayer for the Home, that he compiled for us at St. Nicholas of Myra Byzantine Catholic Church in Anchorage, Alaska, has a Form for the Carpatho-Rusyn Rite of the Holy Mystery of Penance and Reconciliation. I will give some of it and some comments about what he told us.

THE HOLY MYSTERY OF PENANCE AND ROCONCILIATION

PG 13.

Recite the Prayers of Introduction and Psalm 50/51

Troparia (Of Repentance):

Have mercy on us, O Lord, have mercy on us! Since we have no defence, we sinners offer this supplication to You, our Master: have mercy on us!...

Prayer of St. Simeon the Contemplative

Examination of Conscience

The Confession:

(Approach the priest to make the confession. If they are present kiss the ikon of Christ, the Gospelbook and the handcross. )

Say:

I confess to Almighty God, one in the Holy Trinity+, to the Mother of God and ever-Virgin Mary, to all the angels and saints and to you Father, that I have sinned.

My last confession was _____. (or some other suitable prayer. Then in a low voice, confess the sins. If necessary, ask the priest for guidance or clarification regarding any matter.)

When finished say:

This is all I can remember. I am sorry for all my sins. (or some other suitable statement. The priest will then give the penance and place the Epitrachial (Stole) over the penitent's head and say the Prayer of Absolution. Return to the proper place in the church and say the Act of Contrition. Do the assigned penance as indicated. Recite the Concluding prayers.

The Mystery of Penance and Reconciliation should be celebrated as frequently as possible.

END.

Father Steve explained to us that the Rite of Penance as used by Ruthenians has been done using the traditional Orthodox form in front of the Ikon of Christ with stand in front with Handcross, Gospelbook and festal ikon: epitrachial over penitents head using either the Slavonic (Active Latin) Form of Absolution or the Greek (Passive Patristic), the Latin Form via confessional, Behind the Holy Table or in the sacristy or other convienent place. The main concern of the presbyter is if the confession would be heard by others; if there is the risk that would happen - let's say in a small church or chapel or even a medium sized church like St. Nicholas, the priest would probably go behind the Holy Table to do it. Before I became a member at St. Nicholas in Anchorage they had a Latin confessional, but removed it before I got there. The seal of the Mystery of Repentance is very, very sacred; and if a layperson where to overhear a confession - if he or she where to repeat it, and it got back to the priest and even if it didn't, according to Father Steve, that person would be automatically excommunicated from the Catholic Church and only the Holy Father can rescind that excommunication. So again some parishes may not have the traditional form of the Mystery in front of the iconostasis to protect others from hearing the sins of another.

Just a note about the Form of Absolution. Many people don't know that the Kievan or Slavonic Form for absolution, using the active voice " I absolve you" is actually a latinization circa the 1700's in Ukraine, but most Slavic Eastern Churches still use it. There has been a move to use the traditional Greek Form using the passive voice, since it is more in tune with the Eastern theology of the role of presbyter as a Witness to the Confession of the Repentant, for only God forgives, verses the Alter Christus Latin theology of the priest expressed in the Slavonic Form of the Absolution.

Of Course I am sure that it would not be much different in a Ukranian Catholic Church; and it is to be noted that each priest may do it differently and has his own scruples and prejudices about the Form of the Mystery. The rule is: have a talk with the priest to get the FYI on how he performs the Mystery

Hope this helps you and may God grant you many years in health and happiness!

In the Theotokos:


Robert

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Robert Horwath ]

Slava Jesu Kristu,

In my small Ruthenian Mission Church, we have a room set aside with two large icons of Christ and the Theotokos for confessions. Although we are allowed to confess before the iconostas, it is difficult to keep your voice down low enough for anyone else in the Church not to hear. We use the same formula as the OCA at least as I have seen it printed.

Dmitri.

Michael,

I was an Old Roman Catholic priest for the past 9 years (one of the "so-called" vagantes that some posters on this forum don't think much of) and prior to that I was a Roman Catholic layman. Therefore, I was baptized and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. So all I will have to do is go to confession, be absolved my excommunication and then make a public Profession of Faith. Thanks for asking and God bless!

Don

one of the "so-called" vagantes that some posters on this forum don't think much of

Robert DeNiro voice: Yo! You talkin' to me?

Don, I wasn't being uncharitable to you. My reaction comes from the fact that many/most of these churches are set up by and are made up of former Catholics, often pose as Orthodox and are spiritually dangerous to their founders and others who may be taken in. I can't in good conscience recommend these churches to anyone, thank God you are out of them and am happy about your upcoming reception into the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

http://oldworldrus.com

On the overhearing comment ..... in one small church I have been to, confessions *can* be overheard, so Father's solution was to give on of the parishioners/readers the psalter and ask him to chant it, relatively loudly, while confessions were taking place. It seemed to work pretty well.

Dear Don and Serge,

When I attended the Western Rite conference of the Antiochian Orthodox Church, I noticed that they had many former Old Roman Catholic priests among their number.

In their report, two Western Rite "missionaries" said that they had little problem getting Old Roman CAtholic communities to join with the Antiochian jurisdiction, that more were on the way etc.

I also met an Anglican minister who left his ministry since practically his entire parish went "over to Antioch."

In my community, there is an Old Roman Catholic church of St Francis that collects stray animals off the streets and finds them homes. I also adopted two cats from them, but I felt the inevitable tug at the short leash my wife has me on . . .

They have a very traditional Mass and services, lots of tasteful images etc.

"Noncanonical" yes, "dangerous" - well, at least not for all those animals they are saving.

Don, Serge has his perspective and I respect it. He is a nice guy and we share a common veneration for the Romanovs.

But you could never be classified as a "vagante" except maybe in an "extra" sort of way . . .

God bless and help you deal with the Ukrainians,

Alex

On the overhearing comment ..... in one small church I have been to, confessions *can* be overheard, so Father's solution was to give on of the parishioners/readers the psalter and ask him to chant it, relatively loudly, while confessions were taking place. It seemed to work pretty well

Russian standard operating procedure Sunday mornings: I chant the third and sixth hours while Father hears Confessions, much like you describe.

http://oldworldrus.com

Dear Brendan and Serge,

They do that in the civilized part of the Byzantine Catholic Church that I'm presently associated with too . . .

When we go in procession around the Church with the Winding Sheet on Great Friday, we also often chant the Jesus Prayer so people will be less inclined to talk to one another.

Don't you just hate it when someone just talks and talks and talks?

It all started one year when Father was upset by the fact that we were in procession and all this gabbing was going on.

He told me, "Do something!" And I wondered who I was to do something . . .

We then started saying the Jesus Prayer out loud and that calmed things down.

I'll do that myself the next time I get into a heated discussion here as well . . .

Alex