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Monastery icons what to do? #67660
09/26/06 07:39 PM
09/26/06 07:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
Georgia U.S.
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JSMelkiteOrthodoxy Offline OP
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JSMelkiteOrthodoxy  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Georgia U.S.
I found at that the "Monastery Icons" are actually produced by some heretical group. I have received several as gifts. I don't remember if any of them have been blessed. What should I do with them? I have heard that they are evil. They are certainly tacky.

Joe

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67661
09/26/06 07:46 PM
09/26/06 07:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
New York
Father Anthony Offline

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Dear Joe,

I would strongly suggest first that you have them blessed. Even though they have been produced by a heretical group, the sanctification with Holy Water and the prayers of blessing should exorcise any demonic influences. Now, if you chose to give them to someone else or whatever, at least you will not have to worry about these influences following them. I strongly suggest that no matter what you simply do not throw away any icon, but rather if you inclined to dispose of them, do so in the proper manner with consultation of a priest.

I hope this helps.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67662
09/26/06 07:49 PM
09/26/06 07:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
Georgia U.S.
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JSMelkiteOrthodoxy Offline OP
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Father,

It helps very much. God bless you and thank you.

Joe

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67663
09/27/06 03:57 AM
09/27/06 03:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,962
Massachusetts
I
Irish Melkite Offline
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One thinks that there should be a large banner displayed across every Eastern (Orthodox or Catholic) website - displaying in large letters - "Beware Monastery Icons" - it would save so very much bandwidth biggrin


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67664
09/27/06 04:02 AM
09/27/06 04:02 AM
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Posts: 5,564
Dublin
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Dublin
My advice to those who are in possession, or come into possession, of any of these "icons" is to burn them - they do not follow the canonos of iconography, although one may need a magnifiying glass to discover some of the problems (just for a sample, note carefully what they've done with the traditional Ho On inscription on the head of the Lord Jesus Christ).

Fr. Serge

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67665
09/27/06 10:25 AM
09/27/06 10:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 287
Abington, PA USA
JoeS Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by JSMelkiteOrthodoxy:
I found at that the "Monastery Icons" are actually produced by some heretical group. I have received several as gifts. I don't remember if any of them have been blessed. What should I do with them? I have heard that they are evil. They are certainly tacky.

Joe
And they even go so far as to sign the icons. Now thats tacky. Icons are not to be signed at all but written with extreme humility and not notoriety.

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67666
09/27/06 10:43 AM
09/27/06 10:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,515
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Ray S. Offline
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I wish someone in my little Church would read this thread. :rolleyes:

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67667
09/27/06 03:16 PM
09/27/06 03:16 PM
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Posts: 192
The Land of Oz
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Mary of Egypt Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by JSMelkiteOrthodoxy:
I found at that the "Monastery Icons" are actually produced by some heretical group.
Joe
Can I ask, simply out of curiousity, how you know they are produced by a hereticl group?

"note carefully what they've done with the traditional Ho On inscription on the head of the Lord Jesus Christ)."

Fr. Serge,
Can you link a picture of this icon, and explain in more detail?

Thanks.

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67668
09/27/06 04:01 PM
09/27/06 04:01 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 187
USA
Cathy Offline
Orthodoxy or Death
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Yes, they feature one in their catalogue with God pictured in it....take a look. That's not allowed!!

Monastery Icons

Aside from the fact that they're heritics, they're not very artistic.


Orthodoxy or Death
Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67669
09/27/06 04:27 PM
09/27/06 04:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 192
The Land of Oz
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Mary of Egypt Offline
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Okay, I'm going to openly display my ignorance here, but as the saying goes, there are no stupid questions...

What makes them heritical? The way they write icons? I know just a little bit about icons, mainly how to tell which one's what, some theology of icons, and that they are intentionally left to look unreal.

Maybe I'll be able to learn something here, and so will any lurkers who might be wondering the same thing(s).

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67670
09/27/06 04:48 PM
09/27/06 04:48 PM
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Posts: 1,708
Private
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The young fogey Offline
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I'll second what Fr Anthony said. I've been given one and had it blessed. The subject matter is fine and the giver means something to me so I didn't want to destroy it. Though what Fr Serge said is fine.

An Orthodox priest wrote an exposť of Monastery Icons you probably still can find online. They lived near him once so he was well acquainted with them. They are beyond heretical; they're non-Christian, quasi-pseudo-Hindu New Agers. Last I saw on their website they were trying to pass themselves off as Malankara Orthodox from India. They market their images heavily to Roman Catholics (they make lots of images of Roman Catholic saints for example), many of whom don't know iconography and don't know better.

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67671
09/27/06 05:20 PM
09/27/06 05:20 PM
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Posts: 96
Ireland
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Brigid Offline
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Fr Anthony Nelson's ctitique of Monastery Icons is online here:

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/monasteryicons.aspx

The eyes of the Theotokos in the icon illustrating the piece are very disturbing.

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67672
09/27/06 06:14 PM
09/27/06 06:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Dublin
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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To tell if an "icon" is heretical, there are several tests, all of which do require some knowledge of the subject. To learn the subject, try Lossky's Maning of Icons for a starter and other sources published by reputable Orthodox houses.

Compare the "icon" which you are testing with images of the real thing. It takes development of the critical faculties, but eventually you get to the point of being able to recognize even seemingly small departures from what you are supposed to find.

Have a look at other "icons" from the same dubious source. There is a gentleman in the southwest who was trained at Jordanville and who abuses his talent to produce "icons" of highly unlikely subjects.

Get out that magnifiying glass and check all the fine print, so to speak. Some of these peculiar types conceal strange messages in ways which make them hard to find and even harder to read.

Remember: iconography is a language. Unfortunately one can use a language both for honest and for dishonest purposes.

That will do for a starter. There's more, but it's after midnight here.

Fr. Serge

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67673
09/27/06 09:08 PM
09/27/06 09:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 501
Canada
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Orest Offline
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I think you mean:
Ouspensky, Leonid. & Vladimir Lossky. "The Meaning of Icons." Crestwood, NY: St. Vladimirís Seminary Press, 1982.

It is still the best textbook around because it includes pictures, liturgical quotes, biblical quotes and patristic quotes.

Re: Monastery icons what to do? #67674
09/27/06 10:33 PM
09/27/06 10:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 193
Conception Abbey, MO
Benedictine Offline
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Conception Abbey, MO
Dear All,

I wonder if these products are still being produced by "heretical" religious. Nowhere in the current catalog from Monastery Icons is there mention of the "Gnostic Orthodox" monastics that used to make these icons as a means of support.

Instead the catalog (and this is confirmed on Monastery Icons web site - see: http://www.monasteryicons.com/info/index.hzml ) states that the rights to the images were recently acquired by some group called the Sacred Arts Foundation, which is headquartered in Missouri. Also, the catalog outlet is listed as being in West Chester, OH. Is the "monastic" group that started this now defunct? Does anyone know the story?

Peace

Br. Elias

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