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Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67917 06/23/06 06:49 AM
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bojko Offline
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"I say ahmen with each sign of the cross? "
Yes you say Ameen/Amin/ after every sign of cross

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67918 06/23/06 12:05 PM
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The young fogey Offline
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As I don't know much about the Ukrainian recension I'll defer to bojko on that.

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67919 06/24/06 05:30 PM
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Praying should be encouraged, in whatever language the person who is to pray prefers to use. But it should be noted that the expression "Ukrainian Rite" is a misnomer - the Saint Elias Church website is truly excellent, and the expression "Ukrainian Rite" is conspicuous by its absence. There is, a Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, which practices the Byzantine liturgical tradition and for certain reasons strives to do so in accordance with the old traditions of the Church of Kiev. Ukrainian Orthodox Churches generally use the liturgical tradition of the Church of Moscow as modified by Patriarch Nikon.

Incognitus

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67920 07/04/06 07:03 PM
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Chance Offline
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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Peace everyone,

I've continued my inquiry into Byzantine spirituality through the Ukrainian Catholic Church since I last wrote a couple of months back. I've attended three parishes (in two states) during this time. Interestingly, some liturgies have been been totally in English, some totally in Ukrainian, and in one the priest presided in Ukrainian while the congregation responded in English. I'm finding Byzantine/Orthodox spirituality and the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom speaking to my heart in a very uplifting, inspiring, and unique way.

In some ways my journey has been similar to Andriy's except my family has been totally secularized for at least two generations. Because of this, I have no relatives that can help me with learning Ukrainian. I found this site on the web:

http://www.ukma.kiev.ua/pub/courses/UFL/

and I also studied the very helpful Saint Elias site. My question is are there any sites that address learning liturgical Ukrainian? Say phonetic pronunciations of the Trisagion and Holy, Holy, Holy?

Thanks!

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67921 07/05/06 06:29 PM
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Herbigny Offline
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dear Chance:

As far as I know, there is no "Liturgical Ukrainian". The ukrainian used in Church is basically the same as good literary Ukrainian spoken in modern Ukraine, e.g. Lviv or Ternopil. The only slight exception is that in Patriarch Josyf's translation, more Church-Slavonic-esque terms are retained. In the 1988 translation (which has it's own problems) it's supposed to be ordinary basic good literary Ukrainian.

So the pronunciation guide in any good Ukrainian grammar book or teaching tapes should be fine.

My only caveat, and it's a persona one, is that I would rather use the more modern accent of Ukrainian (as used in Ukraine now) as opposed to the quaint but antiquated accent of many older Ukrainians in North America, whose Ukrainian harkens back to the accent and vocabulary of the 1800s.

bonne chance! wink

Herb

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67922 07/05/06 07:32 PM
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Chance Offline
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Thanks Herbigny,

I think I'll just bite the bullet and put in a call to the Ukrainian Cultural Center by me. Perhaps I can find some face-to-face classes or even spring for a private tutor to get started. Best to try to do things right from the beginning instead of correcting any sloppy self-taught pronunciation down the road. smile

I'm fortunate that the Ukrainian Catholic parish closest to me offers daily Liturgies, albeit in Ukrainian--a rare blessing I think currently in Byzantine Catholic parishes, I should take advantage of it.

Peace

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67923 07/12/06 07:40 AM
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Westerner Gone East Offline
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Can anyone show me, phonetically, how one says the "Holy God, Holy Mighty," and "Glory to the Father..." in Slavonic?

Appreciate it!

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67924 07/12/06 11:27 AM
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Dear "Westerner Gone East":

http://justin.zamora.com/slavonic/analyses/holy-god.html

Hope this helps.

Pavloosh

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67925 07/18/06 04:27 PM
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Chance Offline
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Hmm...I'm running into a bit of a dead end with trying to find a class in which to learn Ukrainian or a private tutor. I checked with my closest Ukrainian Cultural Center, the local community colleges, and asked the parish priest without success.

The next step might be an ad in a local Ukrainian paper...or I suppose I could just suck-it-up and humbly listen and learn what I can pick-up during the Divine Liturgy.

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67926 07/18/06 08:18 PM
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Dear Chance,

To learn a Slavic language like Ukrainian will take a while!

If you can pray in English and find a parish that serves in English, you will be able to pray with greater understanding etc.

Even I teach religion in Ukrainian school in English these days . . .

(Shhh! Keep it to yourself please!)

Ciao,

Alex

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67927 07/18/06 09:40 PM
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Chance Offline
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Orthodox Catholic wrote:
Quote
To learn a Slavic language like Ukrainian will take a while!

If you can pray in English and find a parish that serves in English, you will be able to pray with greater understanding etc.
Aye, I picked up a couple of teach-your-self Ukrainian audiotapes, but I think I'm going to need a flesh-and-blood teacher to get anywhere.

I've posted this before, I'm blessed to have four Ukrainian Catholic parishes within a 30 minute drive of me. Unfortunately, the one which is closest to me serves in English but their Sunday English DL is rather stripped down--no chanting, no incense. I want smoke and I want to sing through the whole service!!

Actually, all three serve in English, so I should visit the other parishes too. I guess I'm spoiled but my ideal parish would have:

1. Sunday DL's in English with chanting and smoke.
2. Two or more weekday English DL's--no problem with skipping the chanting and incense, I should plan on getting to work eventually.
3. Ukrainian language classes--hey, I am Ukrainian even if I've been totally secularized.
4. A weekly bible study group.
5. Oh heck, while I'm dreaming let's throw in a weekly study group exploring the Prayer of the Heart in the writings of the Desert Fathers and Russian Mystics.

(Don't start throwing things at me)

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67928 07/19/06 01:21 AM
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Chance Offline
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Speaking of smoke (and fire), if this isn't too much off topic, I just ordered my own home use incense gift package. I can't wait to fire the censer up and venerate my Transfiguration of the Lord and Carmelite Icons.

http://www.tcgalaska.com/holycrosshermitage/HTML/incense_main.asp

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67929 07/19/06 12:38 PM
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Dear Chance,

In fact, you are the ideal UGCC parishioner!

If we had more Christians like you in our ranks . . .

I'm not suggesting we should get rid of Ukrainian, but your plan to learn it slowly etc. is great.

My priestly friend in St Catharines has many Latin Trads in his parish - all of whom have taught themselves the Liturgy in Ukrainian!

Since I got back from our cruise, I've started studying Spanish (and hopefully, Catalan).

I thought it would be difficult, but I seem to be taking to it like a cat takes to milk.

As for you and your enthusiasm - que marvilla! smile

Alex

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67930 07/20/06 10:42 PM
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Chance Offline
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Hey Orthodox Catholic,

As the cliche goes, be careful what you pray for....

I've attended two wonderful daily Liturgies at a small, humble parish which were served in English. There was even incense and a bit of chanting during the Eucharist prayers. The half a dozen or so people at the services were very friendly. The priest even took me under his wing and started to help me with Ukrainian pronunciation!

If you like send me an email I can reply to at cklimushyn@yahoo.com. I've got a few more personal concerns I wouldn't mind running by an elder brother. smile

Peace

Re: Praying in Ukrainian. #67931 07/20/06 10:47 PM
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Chance,

Welcome to the ranks.

I'll be willing to help you with anything you need regarding prayers in Ukrainian, the UGCC, and the Ukrainian language.

Just send me a PM.

-uc

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