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Re: Role of the Pope #70012 10/27/04 09:57 PM
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OrthoMan Offline
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The Only Answer to that!!!

"We have seen the True Light, We have received the Heavenly Spirit, We have found the True Faith, worshipping the Undivided Trinity Who has saved us!"

=====

Amen!!!!

OrthoMan

Re: Role of the Pope #70013 10/27/04 10:29 PM
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Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Dear Amado,

Like you, I too accept the Pope.

Along with His Holiness, I accept that the papacy can undergo some more change and the Pope has asked the Orthodox for some input in this regard.

I personally believe the Pope's authority should go back to the way it was exercised before the schism.

It is certain he would exercise his usual authority in his own world-wide Latin Patriarchate.

But if we want the papacy to be that way in the East, then we will never have one Church.

And as for the Orthoman . . .

WHO DA MAN?

YOU DA MAN!

YOU DA ORTHOMAN!!!

Alex

Re: Role of the Pope #70014 10/27/04 10:32 PM
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Quote


Too bad the Orthodox continue to fail to see the Truth!

Amado
Dear Amado,

It is very hard for someone that has been raised a Catholic to understand how those outside of the RC perceive the Pope. I for one, had that problem. It was hard for me to reconcile myself towards the idea of a Pope, even though I am ecumenical minded.

It seems that we live in a democratic society, and seeing the adulation that is given to the Pope, gives one the impression that he is an 'emporor'. It's hard for people to erase that impression from one's mind.

I guess it's the 'Protestant' mentality, (from the English no doubt), that has been embedded in us, (even though I'm Orthodox)...but I realize it is not the Pope to blame. It is the people that present that illusion, by their 'adulation'.

I've gotten over it. I respect him dearly, and truly see a certain amount of authority, as being better than chaos.

Zenovia

Re: Role of the Pope #70015 10/27/04 10:50 PM
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Dear Brian & Orthoman,

I don't think you will find many Catholics who are familiar with the Orthodox Church who will dispute what you have written.

However you will not find many Catholics who do not believe the same thing about their own Church.

What both of our Churches do acknowledge about each other is that one or the other is lacking somewhere in certain aspects of this truth.

Being a simple layman, and only knowing things I have learned over the years, I am not keen as to why we are not able to come to an understanding of these truths between our Churches.

My opinion is that we remain divided more because of pride; political(church political,not secular), and national reasons, than we do because of differences regarding the truth of the faith.

No matter what the reason for our division, the fact that the Church is divided is a SIN.

If the Church is ever to truly become one it will have to begin with unity between Catholic and Orthodox Christians.

My fervent prayer is that one day this will come to pass, hopefully in my lifetime, but when I look at current relations between our Churches my hope is dimmed.

I will continue to pray unceasingly, nevertheless.

In Christ, Bill

Re: Role of the Pope #70016 10/28/04 01:10 PM
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I believe that lasting, substantive church unity starts with each of us. Laity discerns the need for change, and leadership validates it and proclaims it.

Re: Role of the Pope #70017 10/28/04 09:30 PM
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To All,

First off, I will admit to a little bias here.

I've been reading the post on communion with Rome and decided to post these thoughts here.

I am 48 years old and as long as I've been on this blessed earth I have not seen from anyone or from anywhere a greater Christian witness than I have from Pope John Paul II.

This man is a man for the ages; if the Holy Spirit is not at work in him, then I don't think the Holy Spirit is at work anywhere.

Many will say he is in error and a heretic etc., Because of some of the ACTIONS he has been documented doing since becoming Pope.

Did not Our Lord Jesus Christ work among the Samaritans and promise them salvation, also!

I have not heard ONE word from his LIPS that would stand up to the scrutiny that some would attribute to the outward actions that have been called into question.

I am proud to say that I am in communion with the Church that this man leads.

Zenovia pointed out that she doesn't quite understand the adulation shown to this one man.
It is not so much adulation for him as a person as it is adulation for his office and the way he has conducted himself in it. PEOPLE need a LEADER and this Pope has been serving his Church well.

Bill

Re: Role of the Pope #70018 10/28/04 10:39 PM
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The Roman church believes what she believes and the Orthodox Church believes what she believes.

I dont see any unity in the future this side of Heaven. Thats it. And I am very comfortable with the present arrangement.

JoeS cool

Re: Role of the Pope #70019 10/28/04 10:44 PM
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Dear Bill,

I agree with you about the great holiness of Pope John Paul II.

His writings are unbelievably enlightened by the Holy Spirit...they are simply incredible.

His humility is akin to that of the greatest saints.

I admire him greatly.

May God bless him with many years.

I remember watching a documentary where a Jewish person who had an audience with him commented that he couldn't help but notice the holiness which eminated from his countenance.

In Christ,
Alice

Re: Role of the Pope #70020 10/28/04 10:48 PM
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Dear Amando,

The Holy Catholic Apostolic church has and continues to have the truth for almost 2000 years now.

JoeS

Re: Role of the Pope #70021 10/28/04 11:17 PM
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Alice Offline
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Let's just remember that there are holy and not so holy persons in BOTH the East and the West, and that we all succumb to sin to various degrees. In the end, whether one has adhered to much the same theology and liturgical practice for two thousand years, or another theology and liturgy has evolved differently due to cultural reasons, that doesn't mean to say that there is perfection in either one.

Ultimately, what will build up any Church is personal holiness and loving praxis of its members, not one upmanship, and not pride. Membership in either one will not be a guaranteed ticket to Heaven before the awesome judgement seat.

The world is increasingly pagan, and our children are assaulted each minute of each day by immorality, atheism, materialism, and paganism...isn't it time we realize that we all need each other in a united Christian voice, and a united Christian front of a united Church?

Triumphalism, endless bickering and theological nit picking, the mind boggling dragging of feet at the yearly clerical and hierarchal dialogues, and the underlying FEAR of unity in both West AND East, while our society gets more and more crass, unethical, immoral and perverse, reminds me of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

May our Lord have mercy on us all!

Re: Role of the Pope #70022 10/28/04 11:27 PM
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Alice Offline
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P.S....As an example of why I am so upset at us Catholics and Orthodox 'fiddling while our society burns', in the mornings while I walk on the dreaded treadmill, I take to the remote control and channel surf the television.

Every morning I see that 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' is rerunning, followed by some show called 'Charmed' about young girls who practice serious arts of witchcraft on others, (not the benign 'Bewitched' and 'Sabrina the Teenage Witch' type shows) and also today, as if that were not enough, I saw a show titled 'Satan's school for girls', complete with a red eyed, grotesque Devil....

We may not watch this demonic garbage, and we may even by unaware of its existence, but it is out there, (along with soft porn and overt sexual innuendos on prime time AND cable television shows) and we have to think of what it is doing to the minds and souls of a whole generation and nation of youth! frown

Re: Role of the Pope #70023 10/28/04 11:47 PM
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Preach on, Sister Alice, for you speak the truth!

Re: Role of the Pope #70024 10/29/04 12:10 AM
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theophan Offline
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Alice posted :

Ultimately, what will build up any Church is personal holiness and loving praxis of its members, . . . isn't it time we realize that we all need each other . . . Triumphalism, endless bickering and theological nit picking,
___________________________

Gotta say with my brother, byzanTN--AMEN, AMEN, AMEN smile smile

Gotta add: "You go, girl"!!!!! wink

One more time: You must have been hit by that prayer I posted awhile back, because you "get it"!! biggrin

In Christ,

BOB

P.S.: Alice, ask if you can save me a seat if you get to the Wedding Feast first! I wanna be around those who "got it"!

Re: Role of the Pope #70025 10/29/04 04:26 AM
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Alice,

My prayers for you, not because I think you are in particular need of them (actually, I think you may be less in need of them than are many others in this world smile ), but because to pray for you is to pray for one who loves God's people unreservedly - and I believe that there must be personal spiritual merit in doing so.

Catholics and Orthodox on this forum, on its worst day (and this pre-election period offers the opportunity for that day to happen frown ), are still unquestionably more tolerant and charitable to and caring about one another than on any other Catholic or Orthodox web forum. You, however, inevitably surpass the standards to which this community holds itself.

You perceive that the Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, while institutions of God, are to a large extent subject to the vagaries of man and that perfection is lacking in God's children, oftentimes even when they believe themselves to be doing what they consider to be God's work. Coming from that understanding, you are prepared to accept the shortcomings of each Church and use those as a base from which to build a renewed, unified body of believers. You hold no brief for either Church to evince a trumphalist attitude toward the other; rather, you invariably seek out the best in each and pray for the two to come together, which is what you see God as expecting of us.

My sister, both of our Churches are wanting in folks like you; if that wasn't the case, we would be united long since. I don't mean to embarress you, but there is a concept that is most common in countries of the Orient, although becoming more accepted in the western world, of "Living National Treasures". It is a term applied to persons whose knowledge, skills, and understanding are the embodiment of what is needed to preserve or renew aspects of a people's cultural life and heritage. You, my sister, are a "Living Ecclesial Treasure".

May God grant you many years and may He allow you to see unity between His Churches in your lifetime. You deserve that, for all you have prayed for it to come about. Pray that the rest of us, particularly those in positions that can make it happen, come to understand the imperative need for it to happen.

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Role of the Pope #70026 10/29/04 07:44 PM
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Dear Neil,

I very humbly, and unworthily, thank you for your kind words.

With love in our Saviour,
Alice

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