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#71490 04/25/02 02:33 AM
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Thanks Lance. Excuse my honesty but this is just another reason I disagree with the 'Orthodox In Communion with Rome' analogy.

OrthoMan

#71491 04/25/02 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by OrthoMan:
...this is just another reason I disagree with the 'Orthodox In Communion with Rome' analogy.

OrthoMan


We're workin' on it, K?

Actually, I encourage my pastor to be as Orthodox as possible...

Fasting has never been my thing. One look at me and you would call me a philosopher of the obvious...

Philip's Fast (rather than the Great Fast) is probably the most difficult fast in the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Church. I've been adjusting to the tougher fasting requirements (as compared to the Latin Church). I plan on approaching a more traditional fast next Great Lent.

I will say that there is a particularly wonderful spiritual effect that comes from fasting. Besides, when you have to pass on the pork chops at the restaurant you went to with your Roman Catholic and Protestant friends, it really does give you a wonderful sense of identity.

Just another thought on the way to Constantinople...


There ain't a horse that can't be rode, and there ain't a rider that can't be throwed.
#71492 04/25/02 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by Lance:
"Canon 707

2. The Eucharistic fast shall be from solids one hour before the reception of the Divine Eucharist. Medications and water may be taken anytime.


I'm going to start keeping a stock of coffee cakes in my car so I can wolf one down before I enter the church doors. Fortunately, the Liturgy here is not abbreviated too much, so if there's a homily, I should squeak by with just over an hour's fast. :rolleyes:

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: RichC ]

#71493 04/25/02 12:44 PM
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Dear Orthoman,

Thank you for your kindness!

Even if our Eastern Catholic Churches "officially" prescribe this or that in "keeping up with the Latins," I think it is incumbent on all Eastern Catholics to follow their own Particular traditions, and that means the traditional Communion fast.

As a diabetic, I can vouch for the fact that it hasn't killed me yet smile

Alex

#71494 04/25/02 02:02 PM
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[As a diabetic, I can vouch for the fact that it hasn't killed me yet]

Alex. I am also a diabetic and have gone through two bouts with cancer. I have to take medication in the morning that should not be taken on an empty stomach. So, at times I take (with my priests knowledge) just enough milk to coat my stomach and get the pill down. But when I do, in spite of everything I feel quilty, so on most occasions I still fast and take the medication immediately after Liturgy after Communion.
Guess its the way I was brought up and taught regarding the fast. Its hard for me to change even though I have been told its okay based on my particular medical problems.

OrthoMan

#71495 04/27/02 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Lance:
Orthoman Bob,

To clear up any confusion I post the Canons of the Ruthenian Catholic Metropolia in the US.

"Canon 707

2. The Eucharistic fast shall be from solids one hour before the reception of the Divine Eucharist. Medications and water may be taken anytime.


Canon 880

2. Strict abstinence is to be observed on the first day of the Great Fast and on Great Friday. Simple abstinence is to be observed on Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast.

3. Simple abstinence or an equivalent penance is to be observed on all Fridays throughout the year."


These are the bare minimum requirements. Observance of abstinence and fast on traditional days and fast periods is encouraged and is a laudable practice.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate



Actually, these fasting requirments sound far more reasonable for a twentieth century American like myself to follow then the amazingly strict ones the Orthodox keep.

Unfortunatly, I always had a really hard time trying to observe the strict Orthodox fasting requirments since I, not having been raised Orthodox, was never exposed to any sort of self disiplinary fasting. I really dont know how some Orthodox and other Eastern Christians keep all these strict laws, especially in this day and age?

THe Ruthenian Church (Which will hopefully be my future home) Has clearly created a more simplistic form of fasting that all may easily follow probably because few people actually kept these strict fast anyway and after all, youve got to hold on to your youth.

Robert K.

#71496 04/27/02 07:02 PM
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Unfortunately, even though the traditional fast is *sometimes* talked about, as an "ideal," we're at the point that most of our people have never even heard of the traditional fast. And when by chance it is presented to them, they think of it as incredibly draconian. "Well, the Roman Catholics don't have to do that, why should we??" Once again, mediocrity becomes the norm.

#71497 04/28/02 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by RichC:
Unfortunately, even though the traditional fast is *sometimes* talked about, as an "ideal," we're at the point that most of our people have never even heard of the traditional fast. And when by chance it is presented to them, they think of it as incredibly draconian. "Well, the Roman Catholics don't have to do that, why should we??" Once again, mediocrity becomes the norm.


Mediocraty becomes the norm because no one can be expected to realistically follow such a stringent set of fasting guidlines in this day and age. THe Church was pastorally wise when she decided to use her powers to abridge a man made set of laws that were drawn up in an entirely different era. Things like fasting and the calendar are man made guidlines that the Church has every right to alter or even abolish when they cease to work or even be relevant to members of the Church.

How could anyone outside of a peasant village keep the requirments of the traditional Byzantine fast? Abstinance from meat is one thing, but when you get into diary products, fish, and oils then you seriously reduce what is available to us with our modern dietary habits. Even numerous Orthodox jurisdictions in this country have loosened their fasting regulations to meet the demands of modern life.

Robert K.

#71498 04/29/02 06:38 PM
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Dear Robert,

For the past couple of years, I've kept the traditional Indian Syrian Lenten fast, which from what I hear is a little more strict than the traditional Byzantine fast. In college. Where there already isn't much worthwhile to eat to begin with.

It is a struggle, a big one, and when you've eaten three full weeks of all the plain salad you could ever desire in life for your one meal of the day, almost anything looks good. Nevertheless, by the grace of God, I pull through. The fourth week is always the toughest for me...for that whole week, I dreamt of roast beef. Constantly. But I got through it.

And, and you must believe me on this, as I'm coming to realise this more and more, and I'm not putting on false humility either, I am the weakest of God's servants.

Victory over my dinnertime appetite during Lent is the only victory I can claim...I've fallen innumerable times with just about everything else. So if I can do this, anyone can...it just takes God, determination, prayer, prayer, perhaps some unappetising college food, but always prayer.

But if the fast is divorced from prayer, it is fruitless...this also I learned the hard way. So, for me, it's not the fast that's hard...it's the fight against sin, it's the prayer needed for the fast...this is the real battle for me, not the champagne wishes and roast beef dreams.

#71499 05/01/02 01:55 PM
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Dear Orthoman,

Diabetic or not, you should stay away from sugar since you are already sweet enough! smile

You remind me of my Carpatho-Russian Orthodox former boss who took a bit of milk with his coffee in Lent and had terrible guilt feelings about it.

God blesses his scrupulous servants with special graces!

Alex

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