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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hello All,

With today starting the Dormition Fast, I am asking people here and at http://YourCatholic.com how they fast.

As for me, I give up meat every Friday and Wednesday, except when allowed to Feast instead.

During the Great Lent I of course fast from all meat & dairy (starting from the meat & cheesefare dates), and do so on the Beheading of John the Baptist (Aug. 29) and other such days.

But for Fasts such as the Nativity, Ss. Peter & Paul & Dormition Fasts, I only give up meat for their duration. So what does everyone else do, if you don't mind sharing? Thanks in advance & God Bless!

IC XC NIKA,
-Nik!

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Dear Nik,

The Dormition Fast begins in two weeks' time on the True, rather than the New, Calendar! smile

Fasting for me is following my diabetic fast to the letter.

Yes, I can base my fast on abstention from meats and meat by-products.

But abstaining from sweets - man, that's torture for this guy whose already sweet enough! wink

I think God is using my diabetic condition to impress upon me the deep spiritual significance of just what fasting is all about.

Alex

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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Yes Alex, the new calendar is something I'm on, not by choice, but because my Eparchy is using it. You folks in Ontario are lucky to be allowed to be on the true calendar and to have such wonderful churches (I will withold my comments on Holy Eucharist Ukrainian Catholic Church's lack of beauty)!

You may be interested to know that after Vatican II the Stamford Eparchy went to the new calendar and half the parishioners left and went a block down the street to the Russian Orthodox Church to follow the true calendar. It caused a major rift between the 2 churches and we are just now mending that & having annual joint picnics! God Bless!

IC XC NIKA,
-Nik!

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To Alex & Nik (and all the regulars):

I am seriously contemplating a move from the
Roman Catholic Church (here in America) to the
Byzantine Catholic Church. I've met with a
Byzantine Catholic Priest and attended
my first Eastern Rite Mass last Sunday.
What a spiritually satisfying
and "transcendant" experience that was!

Question: Can someone tell me the history
and significance of the Dormition Lent and
fast? Roman Catholics only celebrate The
Feast of The Assumption of Mary - not the
weeks leading up to it? Are there
references to this event in the Bible? Or
is the event a matter of oral tradition in
the Eastern Rite Churches?

May God Richly Bless you! Kimberly Garcia

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Dear Servant of Christ Kimberly,

God is obviously doing great things in your life and I join with everyone here in praying for you as you discern God's Will and respond to His Call!

The Dormition vs Assumption reflects two different emphases in East and West regarding the liturgical commemoration of the end of the earthly life of the Most Holy Mother of God.

The Dormition refers to the "Falling Asleep" of the Mother of Christ that underlines her death. It was a very light death, to be sure, a "falling asleep."

This was the original title of the feast and the liturgical celebration of it is taken from an orthodox New Testament apocryphal book that describes the events of the final days of the Mother of God and is online.

That book reflects on how the Mother of God returned to Jerusalem toward the end of her life and visited, once again, the places associated with the ministry and death of Her Son. She would walk and then turn to those with her to say, "And this is where my Son was scourged, where He fell under His Cross etc."

Many people came to see her, as she was known as a great miracle-worker who also gave advice and counsel to people needing it.

As she lay on her death-bed, her Son appeared to her and she asked him for a special favour. She asked if He would grant any of her petitions that she would make on behalf of those who invoked her. And this her Son readily granted.

The Apostles were then translated physically to be by her side from the far corners of the earth where they were preaching, all except for Thomas.

As the Mother of God reposed, Her Son, fulfilling Her Mother's request, took her soul into His Hands Himself to protect her from the assaults of the demons.

She was translated, body and soul, into the Kingdom of her Son.

A man who tried to actually attack the bier of Our Lady, lost his hands, very much like the fellow in the Old Testament who died after touching the Ark of the Old Covenant.

The Assumption is a Western emphasis on Our Lady's translation into heaven.

It reflects the defined doctrine of the Assumption that the East never accepted since it always expressed its faith in this through the liturgy and this was never an issue.

The doctrine of the Assumption also SEEMED to imply that Our Lady didn't die, or at least this was left open in the way the doctrine was worded, owing to the Immaculate Conception doctrine that, for some, appeared to require that Our Lady did not die.

Our liturgy clearly does state that Our Lady did repose in the Lord and was taken body and soul to Heaven.

This is not to say that there are no traditions of others who were taken to heaven without apparently dying, such as the Prophet Elias and St John the Theologian himself.

The Eastern tradition, expressed in New Testament orthodox deuterocanonical writing and liturgical services as his Akathist, indicates that he asked to be buried alive. The next day his tomb was opened and there were no remains.

On his Feast day, it was reported that a gentle breeze would develop at Ephesus near his tomb, and that bright dust particles would dance in the air.

As you see, being an Eastern Catholic is much more colourful and exciting! smile

Alex

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kimberly Garcia:
[QB]To Alex & Nik (and all the regulars):

>>>Question: Can someone tell me the history
and significance of the Dormition Lent and
fast? Roman Catholics only celebrate The
Feast of The Assumption of Mary - not the
weeks leading up to it? Are there
references to this event in the Bible? Or
is the event a matter of oral tradition in
the Eastern Rite Churches?<<<

Like so much of the Marian doctrines of the Church, East and West alike, the Feast of the Dormition has its roots in second century apocryphal literature, which in its turn encapsulates an older oral tradition. These apocryphal documents were regarded as divinely inspired, but did not enter into the Scriptural canon because they lacked authentic apostolic origins (the early Church knew what was pseudoepigraphical and what was not). The Feast of the Dormition was being celebrated in the East as early as the 4th century, and it spread gradually to the West, entering the liturgical calendar in the sixth or seventh centuries (possibly at the instigation of Pope Gregory the Great, who served as a legate to the East for many years--writing the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts used by the Byzantine Churches while he was there). The significance of the Dormition of the Theotokos is as a guarantee that ultimate resurrection is something open to all who accept Christ. Mary serves as our representative and guarantor of that promise by her falling asleep and being assumed into heaven in a glorified body of the same sort worn by Christ after His resurrection. Mary thus continues her role as perfect disciple, Champion Leader, and Mother of us who are God's children by divine adoption.

The Dormition fast probably began somewhat later than the observance of the Feast, though I don't know the exact date. Its purpose, as is the purpose of all our fasts, is two-fold: first, it is a form of acesis by which we continue to gain mastery of our passions and thus come closer to sharing in the divine nature; second, like all pre-festal fasts, it is a means of preparation, of cleansing the soul (one does not go to a feast wearing dirty clothes, or with a full stomach). So, through abstinence, prayer, confession and good works, we will be properly disposed. It is not a coincidence that the four major fasts of the Byzantine Calendar fall one into each season--Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall (roughly speaking--the variability of Pascha means that sometimes you get two winter fasts, and sometimes two summer fasts). I suspect that this was intentional, as people stopped receiving the Eucharist regularly, and thus needed significant spiritual preparation to go to confession, which would then allow them to receive the Eucharist.

As to personal fasting rules, they vary for each person. There is an "absolute" standard, which is held up as an ideal--no animal produce of any sort (meat, fish, dairy, eggs)--except for shellfish or fish without backbones; no olive oil; no wine. These rules were developed in a particular time and place, and may not be appropriate in other times and places (e.g., lobster is OK, but tunafish is not?); therefore oikonomia must be used to determine what is appropriate for particular circumstances. Moreover, each person is at a different stage of spiritual development, so attempts by beginners to live the full rigor of the fast are bound to fail, leading to a sense of disappointment and futility that undermines the spirit of fasting. Conversely, those who make a big deal out of fasting run the risk of falling into pride or vainglory--fasting should be done in an unostentatious manner, and never in a way that gives offense: if someone offers you a burger at a barbeque, take it, for violating hospitality is a greater sin than breaking the fast. A good rule of thumb is to set goals for yourself that are challenging, yet attainable. If you fall of the wagon, get up and keep trying (asked what one does at a monastery, one monk said, "We fall and get up again, fall and get up"). The following year, try something a bit more difficult, and so on each subsequent year, as you grow into the fast. And always remember, that what comes out of a man's mouth sanctifies or condemns him much more than anything that goes into his mouth.

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Dear Stuart,

Your discourse on the pseudepigrapha is fascinating.

The deuterocanonicals describing the Entrance into the Temple of the Mother of God were, of course, used for the Feast and liturgical services in honour of this event.

I've come across Roman Catholic writers who have ridiculed this feast, saying it is spurious BECAUSE it is based on such texts.

They also say that the entire event would never have happened.

Your response?

Alex

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Alex,

I would wager that these same "Roman Catholic" writers also deny the existence of St. Juan Diego and possibly even question the Incarnation itself! Every day, I become more amazed at how many of my "Roman Catholic" brethren sound more like my low-church Episcopalian brethren.

In Christ,
mikey.

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Dear Alex:

Thank you for the "history lesson"! I
absolutely adore the imagery of Christ
being present at His Mother's bedside -
and of His summoning the Apostles, if
you will - from their task of evangelization.
Mary remained faithful at the foot of her
Son's cross - it is only right that Christ
be with His mother when her earthly ministry
was complete.

According to your source, an Orthodox New
Testament book with which I am not yet
familiar, Mary petitions her Son for the
Gift of Intercessory Prayer. This act is
certainly in keeping with Our Lady's remark-
able humility! Although conceived without
Sin, the Mother of God KNEW that only Jesus
as God Incarnate, had the authority to
bestow upon her this mystical grace. This
Eastern Orthodox belief is a fitting
response to Protestant and Evangelical
Christians who accuse Catholics of
worshipping Mary - "in place of her Son".
We both know they take many scriptures out
of context to condemn the practice of
going to Mary in prayer. If only they
knew this was a favor Christ granted to
the Mother of God.

Yes, PLEASE do pray for me as I seek
God's Will in discerning whether I am to
convert to the Byzantine Catholic
Church. Let me know of your spiritual
needs as well!

Your Sister in Christ

Kimberly Kateri Garcia

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Dear Mikey,

Who was it who said they are "separated brethren" and let's keep it that way!

Yes, I was amazed at a reporter's comment the other day who said that "some deny Juan Diego's existence, but he'll be canonized anyway."

In university, I had the opportunity to do some research into the life of Juan Diego.

The agnostic scholars who were my professors readily accepted the existence of Juan Diego and said that doubts about it were perpetrated by the colonial Spaniards, a number of whom were upset at the time that Our Lady would choose to appear to a Native Indian, rather than to a Spanish Catholic!

In addition, I think some of this may be explained by Mexico's unfortunate anti-Catholic and anti-clerical history, which is hard to believe given the Catholic population of the country.

Mexico's government insisted on the separation of church and state - principles of which it borrowed from Masonic teachings.

American-style separation of church and state come from similar sources. As a matter of fact, and I kid you not, if you look on the other side of an American greenback, you'll see all sorts of Masonic symbols there. The fact is, despite U.S. church-state separation rhetoric, the government monuments in Washington were all "consecrated" using the rituals of Masonry, which is, in fact, a religion in its own rite . . .

The Archbishop of Mexico was correct, in my view, to criticize his country's posturing on this matter where the President actually has to divest himself of his state uniform and symbols in order to participate in something like a canonization of a saint or to even go into the Cathedral of Guadalupe.

He was correct in saying that the President is such "in and out of church."

I normally would be against saying things like Mexico's poverty may be a punishment for its hypocritical and anti-Catholic stance on the part of its government.

But the shoe seems to fit very nicely in Mexico's case.

Alex

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Dear Kimberly Kateri,

I'm happy you found my little nattering of some help.

Stuart's post was much more comprehensive than mine and addressed the entire issue from both a theological as well as pastoral position with his usual erudition.

The Eastern Catholic Church takes those sources very seriously and at every Compline service the Eastern Church invokes her in accordance with her final wish: "Save, help and protect us, O Virgin Mother of God!"

Only the Byzantine Church invokes Our Lady with: Most Holy Mother of God, save us! Save us with your intercession and prayer that is.

The Eastern Church honours highly the holy Conception of the Mother of God.

It believes that our Lord sanctified Our Lady from the very moment of Her Conception and graced Her with every gift of the Spirit owing to her exalted role as Mother of the Word Incarnate.

The Eastern Church glorifies her many miraculous Icons, who have feast days and liturgical services, including a number of icons of the Dormition itself. The Icon of Our Lady of Kyiv is actually an icon of the Dormition that hangs over the Royal Doors of the Icon-screen and is lowered on ropes for people to venerate.

You are named for Bl. Kateri Tekakwitha as well?

I grew up near the Martyrs' Shrine in Midland where there always was an outdoor image of her and there is now a Shrine to her in the Church with a relic.

Recently, a new stained glass window was installed there where she is called "Saint Kateri."

Beside her shrine in the Church is the reliquary of the head of St Jean de Brebeuf.

It is turned so the mark of the tomahawk that finally killed him is visible.

It was Kateri's uncle who boasted giving that blow to St Jean.

He later became a missionary for Christ and it was under his influence that Kateri became a Christian.

May the Mother of God bless you ever so richly!

Alex

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From Nik

>Glory to Jesus Christ!

>With today starting the Dormition Fast, I am asking people ... how they fast.

[The following is taken from our order of worship.]

The Holy Canons Specify:

Monday through Friday -
Abstain from:
Meat and Meat Products
Dairy Products
Fish
Olive Oil
Wine

No abstinance from:
Shellfish
Vegetables & Vegetable Products
Fruit
We are to regulate both amount of food consumed and number of times per day we eat.

Saturday and Sunday - Oil and Wine are permitted.

Feast of the Transfiguration [6Aug]
No Meat & Meat Products
No dairy Products

geo

In the homily last week, our priest began with: Thank God for this Fast!


"Be not troubling of you the heart..."
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Dear Servant of God George,

It is interesting that they would not specify Wednesday and Friday as days of special fasting, as opposed to abstaining only.

Our priests regularly remind us of this "tradition" in this respect by which I take it to mean it is Orthodox, we don't do it any more as a general rule, but we should for our own spiritual good and to be faithful to our traditions.

But I don't want to get Joe Thur started on another reform project . . . smile

Forgive me a sinner!

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From Alex:

>Dear Servant of God George,

Not yet! I am only a catechumen! :-)

>It is interesting that they would not specify Wednesday and Friday as days of special fasting, as opposed to abstaining only.

Well, the canons specify minimums, which are well below the Wed and Fri minimums, I would guess. As it is, I have chosen to fast till the 9th hour each day, except Sunday, where we fast to the 6th. And then eat lightly but one meal of fruit and vegetables and grains... With another lite one later if needed. But it is not enforced, nor even enquired about. Each of us answers to God, not to neighbor or fellow parishoner! [No Food Police!! They have been consigned to the pile that also composts the mattress police! :-)]

>Our priests regularly remind us of this "tradition" in this respect by which I take it to mean it is Orthodox, we don't do it any more as a general rule, but we should for our own spiritual good and to be faithful to our traditions.

About all that is left, to make these two days more emphasized, would be a total fast, I should think... The numbers are interesting - I figured them up early on [and I have a terrible fasting compliance record, btw]: Orthodox Christians have 205 fasting days out of 365 days each year... Kinda daunting for us beginners! [Suture my lips!]

>But I don't want to get Joe Thur started on another reform project . . .

Well, ya gotta keep him busy with sumpthin'!! :-)

>Forgive me a sinner!

God forgives all...

geo


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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
The Apostles were then translated physically to be by her side from the far corners of the earth where they were preaching, all except for Thomas.

A man who tried to actually attack the bier of Our Lady, lost his hands, very much like the fellow in the Old Testament who died after touching the Ark of the Old Covenant.

The Eastern tradition, expressed in New Testament orthodox deuterocanonical writing and liturgical services as his Akathist, indicates that he asked to be buried alive. The next day his tomb was opened and there were no remains.

Dear Alex,

1. He HAD to be difficult, didn't he? :p

2. Could you elabourate more on the guy who got his arms taken away for trying to attack her bier? Why did he try to attack it?

3. The Assumption of Saint John? I did not know this...could you elabourate on this too?

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