Two questions:
1) Do Eastern Catholic churches have holy water fonts? If not, why?
2) Can anyone direct me to not-too-long articles on how and why Eastern Christians view icons as they do? I think it's great, but I would like to know more.

Thanks,
ChristTeen287

Christteen

Christ Is Among Us!

No the Eastern Churchs dont use Holy Water Fonts.
Its never been part of the Eastern Tradition.

Here are 3 links about Byzantine Ikons.

http://www.byzantines.net/moreinfo/icons.htm

http://www.byzantines.net/moreinfo/venerateIcons.htm

http://www.byzantines.net/moreinfo/iconsInTheBCC.htm

From: Daniel
In The Holy+Theotokos

Dear Daniel, I beg to differ. Some Eastern Catholic Churches indeed do have holy water fonts...call it a latinization if you will, but it does happen. Since the Eastern Catholics do use holy water in their homes and private (as well a public) devotions, I see no reason why this particular custom should be abandoned in places where it is of long standing use. Don

Dear Daniel and Don (it has been a long time),

Holy water fonts are not a Latinization. They have been used throughout Christiandom since (i think) the beginning. They are evidenced by their presence (and i know this for sure) in churches in Cappadocia from the 6th-12th centuries.

There are services in the Trebnik/Euchologion (manual of priest's prayers) for "small" blessings of water which traditionally were performed many times throughout the year (besides the greater blessing of water at Theophany and a different one for baptisms).

The water left over after the people had been blessed and drunk at these water blessings was often left in the church for the faithful to bless themselves.

Randy and Adam, I thought that was the case, but since I didn't have the facts at my fingertips I was just saying what I did know. I prefer not making pontifical statements about things I can't confirm with facts. Thanks for filling in the gaps I left. Don

As far as I know [which is not that far], holy water "fonts" are not a feature of contemporary Orthodox Church practice [or Orthodox Church practice at the time of the Uniya(s)]. Neither is the Latin custom [however laudable] of dipping one's finger into a holy water font and with it making a small poklon when entering and exiting the Temple.

So I would tend to agree with "StBenedictRules" at least on the prescriptive level.

Though "Don in Kansas" is correct on the descriptive level that there are still some parish churches with fonts - and I do tend to think it is a latinization. And I appreciate his caveat about dealing with it in a pastoral way - though ultimately if it is a Latinization....

Is "Diak" saying that the Lesser Blessing is for holy water Fonts and there are Orthodox Churches wherein after the Lesser Blessing [which I only know to be generally done at Praznyks etc.]the left over holy water is put in a font by the doors for people to using in making poklons?

If so, I must recant my above posting.

Of course I am only speaking of those Churches of the Byzantine rite. Other and more "Eastern" Churches may have other practices.

cix

herb.

Slava Isusu Christu!

"TRADITIONALLY" Holy Water fonts are not apart of Eastern Christian Tradition. They are used because of latinizations. Even though they are used as Latinizations in some Byzantine Catholic Churchs it doesnt me that they are used and are Traditional to the orthodox Eastern Traditions.

I dont know if you noticed im an Eastern Tradition Traditonalist .

From: Daniel
In The Holy+Theotokos

Daniel, may I ask how long you have been a Byzantine Catholic? Don

Bless me a sinner, Father Don!

Yes, I too wonder about converts, even to our Church, who are more traditional than the cradles.

But there are Latinizations even among the Orthodox and they don't get their noses all twisted out of joint because of them.

In fact, Latinizations that occurred among the former Greek Catholics who became Orthodox up here in this wilderness are still maintained - custom, tradition and because they just plain like it.

No one has suggested they are less Orthodox for it.

Alex

Alex, my biggest question is how do we determine what are authentic Byzantine traditions? Is there some magic line in the sands of time that says here is where authentic Byzantine tradition begins and Latinizations or innovations begin? Just because some Orthodox jurisdiction does or does not do something in the present day make things a part of the tradition or not? What I find most amusing is how scholars, priests, bishops and theologians (not to mention historians) devote their whole lives and not find answers to these and related questions, but someone who isn't even a Catholic yet, let alone a Byzantine Catholic, knows more than someone who has been one for years? I just can't believe these converts at times...and I am one myself! Don

It seems to me that the practise of having a holy water font is a remenant of the ancient (and still current) ritual washing of hands (as well as the face in dusty area). The fact of the matter is that in ancient Christian temples, there were small basins (far too small for baptisms, even of infants) that were either free standing or carved into the wall, typically to the immediate south of the entryway, either in the nave or the narthex. Still thinking of the Cappadocian examples, i can hardly believe that Latinizations crept into these in the 7th or 10th century in a remote part of the byzantine empire.

Thanks again Adam! Don

Easy, Don, don't go a-feudin on us, my southeastern Missouri (transplanted to Kansas) brother...

I think we can safely say the organs in Greek Orthodox and some other Eastern Christian parishes is definitely a latinization... There's a few others that are pretty obvious...

Alex is right on target...I have seen old pictures of the 30s with OCA and Carpatho-Russian Orthodox priests wearing headgear like kolpaks or even biretta-looking things sometime. The priests took their latinizations right over from the Greek Catholics when they became Orthodox.

Getting back to the water font issue, there are washings of the hands and face of the bishop appointed in the Archieraticon, the book containing services when the bishop is present including the Byzantine Pontifical Divine Liturgy.

The Archieraticon in general has preserved several of the more ancient Byzantine liturgical traditions.

The use of ritual washing is certainly scriptural, patristic, and within the known liturgical tradition.