Oh, Brian You did too! sending me Orthodox Sumbliminal Messages over voice, i remmeber thouse! haha.

Adim, i will keep you up too date and all of you
that have replyed to my post. Im going to Divine Liturgy again, i will see what happens that sunday.

Brian Congrats! How much sooner will you be recieved? I still think you just enter the Greek Orthodoxy, JK! Good Luck though.

Admin: Thanks for all the suport your extremely Help full, you too Brian. Hey and you need to get on Yahoo! im getting bored with out you there!

From: Daniel
In The Theotokos and the Byzantine Catholic Church!

Glory to Jesus Christ,

Dear Admin, notice I said, "some people would, but I wouldn't". It was totally meant in fun and not a serious suggestion from me. All of the people that emailed me or IMed about your reply figured that out, but I guess inflection on the Internet isn't always that clear. And since they knew me better, they knew my intents.

And you advice about having a spiritual Father guiding one's transition is right on the money. For months before making my transition I spoke with a UGCC spiritual Father about what I'd learned in my Patristic studied and my desires, and then when he & I knew it was inevitable that I must change Churches, I contacted a Spiritual Father to guide me in transition to where I belong. Its the best way for everyone to make such a transition too IMO. God Bless!

quote
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"One of the questions one must consider is whether one is seeking or fleeing. Those who seek usually find. Those who flee seldom find. This is why it is of great importance for someone on the journey to have a good spiritual father. Only a fool makes such a journey without help from an elder member of the community."
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I can support this position. Often times in this fast world we live in not enough time is given to the Lord and what he wants. Does it matter how long it takes? Having a Spiritual Director is very important and necessary for anyone who is serious about their calling in life. The world offers too many distractions. The Admin. has given sound advice.
For my part I have several years behind me and it is because of the 60's rule in the RC Church that has lead me to search the Orthodox. I found a certain peace while on retreat with the Monks at Holy Transfiguration Skete in the U.P. of Mich.
Patience and discernment is difficult, yet the harvest the harvest can be sweet.Mom can be a very important resource for any of us. Ask Her. Deacon Pat

Dear Nik,

I, for one, know that you have been in close contact with priests who have given you excellent advice and concur with your decision to become Orthodox.

That's why I know you recognize the humour in statements I would make in jest about you like, "In accepting you, doesn't Orthodoxy have any standards any more?"

It is just that I bemoan your loss as a tragedy for our Church.

I believe God calls us to become Orthodox, or Roman Catholics or Eastern Catholics.

As long as we respect one another and our traditions, we are all in God's love and fulfilling His Will for His Body the Church that is destined to be united one day - in His way, not ours.

Alex

Dear Administrator,

I once played the role of Sir Thomas More in the "Man for all Seasons" in high school.

Your comments to Nik reminded me of More's comment to his future son-in-law, William Roper when he asked for his daughter's hand in marriage and I quote from memory:

More: There's nothing wrong with your family, Will - there's nothing much wrong with you, except that you seem to need a clock.

Roper: I can buy a clock, Sir!

More: You know what I mean, Will. Two years ago you were an impassioned Churchman. And now you are an impassioned Lutheran. We must just pray that when your head's stopped spinning, your face is back up to the front again!

Administrator, whenever you need some useless information, you know who to contact!

Alex

I would hardly compare the character in Bolt's play (excellent) who flirted with Lutheranism circa 1532 with Nik who has obviously prayed, studied and received direction on his road.

Peace,
Brian

P.S. Yours in admiration of the play and film

yes, I am an Anglophile

Dear Brian,

What's up, Dox?

I wasn't comparing William Bolt with Nik.

Only the Administrator's comment with More's conversation.

And William Roper was a very dedicated Christian.

The fact that he flirted with Lutheranism takes nothing away from him.

He was the one who wrote the biography of More and who stayed with him to the bitter end.

He was the one who asked Thomas Cromwell to be the godfather for his first child, to show that there were no hard feelings.

He wrote,"After riding with Sir Thomas for a long time, he turned to me and pulled my ear and said, 'I've resolved the matter!' The grace of God worked wondrously in him."

As for Lutherans, St Clement Hofbauer of the Redemptorists spent time as a missionary among the German Lutherans.

His famous line was, "The Germans became Lutherans because they wanted to live as Christians."

So no offense to Nik and certainly none to his beard . . .

Alex

Hi:

Well, initially because it is worth it. But I don't think it is difficult, it just has a process and the process is not one that results in immediate gratification as we are most used to in our modern society.

Yes, that might be true, and yet RCIA is not like a college course where you're supposed to receive a grade based on the skills you show on some test.

RCIA stands for Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. And as any Rite, it has a certain sequence of steps that you must follow. One of these steps is discipleship and one of the things you need for discipleship is humilty. Something I have a hard time finding in your statement above.

This is unusually long. Are you sure you're doing your part? It is not only about knowing or not knowing. Becoming a Catholic is much more about doing than about knowing.

It is you who need salvation, and so it is you who must follow the rules. You will not earn your salvation with your knowledge about the Eastern Catholic Churches. It is God who will save you by His Grace and through His Church, as soon as you're willing to receive this free gift from Him in faith, obedience and love.

So get rid of that "I already know" attitude and say: "Speak, Lord. Your servant listens".

You can count on our prayers.

Shalom,
Memo.

Dear Memo,

And catechesis is a life-long thing, as I have come to learn.

No one is so smart or learned in Christianity that they cannot learn more or be surprised by new things.

I'm surprised on this Forum with what I learn every day!

Alex

Hi:

I disagree.

My youngest son, Jose de Jesus was baptized during the Paschal Vigil, 1999, in Guadalajara, Mexico. Unless things have dramatically changed since, these classes were two one-hour sessions, mandatory for parents and godparents.

The goal of the first session is to make sure that everybody understands what are we getting ourselves into with this "rising the child as a Christian" stuff.

The second session you go over the rite of Baptism itself so that nobody would feel unconfortable during the rite itself.

Sometimes, alas, one hour is not nearly enough to cover the topics.

Is this too much? I don't think so. If anything, it is too little.

And it is not an excuse for waiting, your "certificates" are valid for one year. So you have all 9 months of pregnancy to take the classes if you want to have your child baptized a week after birth.

And for the record, for all three of my children, I was perfectly able not only to teach the classes, but also to teach the lay teachers about how the class should be given. Nevertheless, I attended class every time because I love my Church and I have no problem with obeying her precepts.

Well, in my parish the Pastor is usually involved, except whe he is ill or something like that.

The sacraments of initiation must be received in the Church you belong to. This is not bureaucracy, it is respect for the jurisdiction of a Particular Church.

If you want your children to receive sacraments of initiation in a BC parish, you have to canonically become a member of that BC Church.

Not all Orthodox jurisdictions will recognize the Roman Catholic Confirmation as a valid Chrismation.

In the times of the Fathers, one used to be a Catechumen for YEARS, and only be admited to Baptism when one was deemed worthy of it, and it was not easy.

Wana go back to that tradition? Fine, but I don't think you're going to find a lot of support in people who want fast-food-like sacramental preparation.

Shalom,
Memo.

Hi Alex:

And I totally agree. With God there is always more. Of everything.

Shalom,
Memo.

"And for the record, for all three of my children, I was perfectly able not only to teach the classes, but also to teach the lay teachers about how the class should be given. Nevertheless, I attended class every time because I love my Church and I have no problem with obeying her precepts."

It is great that you got involved in your children's catechesis, many troubles would be avoided if the parents participate and supervize that the lay teachers are really teaching catholicism.

"Not all Orthodox jurisdictions will recognize the Roman Catholic Confirmation as a valid Chrismation".

It depends on the jurisdiction but it also depends on the parish in some cases because there's not a standard method, as far as i know. Sometimes RC are received through confession and communion, but now RC are almost always received through chrismation. It is not that the chrismations are not valid, it's about the grace that the sacrament imparts.
It is probable that in the coutries were Orthodoxy is predominant and the RC is seen like any other christian denomination, people would be chrismated, but if the priets have had contact with Roman Catholicism and know that they have tides and that the sacraments are similar, they would make an exception.

Dear Remie,

You are right about parental involvement.

When I taught religion for five years, I always got the parents involved in the religious discussions we were having.

After two years, I had some parents come into my class to participate in the discussions!

(Neat or what?)

And when I had parents, I would always try to "wow" them with some obscure fact about this or that to really make them shake their heads in amazement.

I try to do that here, but you people know too much for me . . .

Alex

Ive Got every thing Figured out now!
I went to Divine Liturgy and talked with my Byzantine Catholic Priest about becoming a Byzantine Catholic. He said he wants me to
attend his Adult Catechesis Class or Eastern Christian Formation Class, and Keep coming to Divine Liturgy, and if I keep doing that, it will
lead up to my Reception in the Byzantine Catholic Church.

I do wish the Ruthenian Jurisdiction had a more Organized way of becoming a Byzantine Catholic. Like the Roman RCIA. But i think the way the Byzantine Ruthenian Church does it in america is much quiker. But ive been told, by alot of Roman Catholic Priest, that RCIA is almost usefull because the teachers themselves are non properley catechized or lack true orthodox Roman Catholicism.

From: Daniel
In The Holy + Theotokos

Correction "Useless" not "Usefull!"

From: daniel
In The Holy Theotokos