My heritage is Byzantine Catholic (Hungarian). I am not Slav. Yet, the Ruthenian and Hungarian Churches joined forces in this country. As far as I understand it, one did not take over the other. Therefore, I fail to see how one can argue that the Byzantine Church in American is Slav.

I now attend a Ukrainian Catholic Church (Byzantine Rite). They could not be more accepting of me; and, if any of the Byzantine Churches have a reputation of ethnicity, certainly the Ukrainians have it.

I have learned to appreciate the ethnic aspects of the Church. These traditions are rich. On the other hand, I have never been made to feel that they are exclusive.

The people at my church go out of their way to include me and my family.

I am sorry to hear that someone is using ethnicity to exclude you, Anthony. My experiences in both the Ukrainian and Ruthenian Churches is that they are both trying to be more inclusive and more accepting of diversity. If they do not, they are, in a sense, commiting suicide. The young will go where there is less discord and more acceptance.

PS: St. George has recently developed a web site. To see pictures of us, go to: http://stgeorgemission.org

Glory to Jesus Christ.

Ethnicity is a two-edged sword - it is a living classroom to teach Christianity, a Christianity incarnated in a culture, and a hedge against the worst aspects of American culture. But the Church isn’t a lodge for fill-in-the-ethnic-group either.

>Or should I just pack up my bags and go back to the Universal and non-ethnic Roman Church, from which I came?

I think a lot of bandwidth has been spent by Eastern Christians in the noble cause of trying to show that that ‘Universal Church’/‘Catholic Church’ and ‘Roman Church’ aren’t synonymous, though one may be a subset of the other. Seems most Roman (and Eastern!) Catholics are conditioned to assume they are.

The one Church is made up of Churches: both in the apostolic sense of each see being a Church and in the sense of particular Churches such as the self-headed (patriarchal) Byzantine ones. Catholicity and particularity are a paradox (like God is One in Three), something that must be understood as being in a kind of necessary balance or tension. It’s easy to overemphasize one aspect or the other. Catholics have a keen sense of the universal Church, but this often is at the expense of understanding particularity. There is the ongoing problem of confusing Romanness with universality, and also the problem of treating particularity in a condescending way, as if the Orthodox tradition is nothing but a trapping one can put on and take off like a stage costume. I’m afraid I have seen this attitude among Catholics online (but not here ). The Orthodox tend to err in the other direction, hence the Latin-bashing (reminds me of get-whitey reverse racism) and intramural jurisdictional beard-pulling wars that mar its witness in America (like Protestant denominational fractiousness but with holy orders, icons and a Liturgy). Where are the Eastern Catholics in all this? I think the Orthodoxophiles are on the ball here, understanding the necessary balance, not forgetting either Catholicity or particularity. But other Eastern Catholics really see themselves as RCs in costume: they’ve bought into ‘Roman equals universal’.

http://oldworldrus.com

[This message has been edited by Rusnak (edited 09-01-2000).]

Ed,

You are the excellent model of Byzantine Catholicism. The ethnic variances of Hungarian, Rusyn, Ukrainian, make no difference in your participation in Byzantine Catholic life. What make you Byzantine is that this is how you received and live out the gift of faith. It is the package the gift came in. God bless you.

K.

I have been reading some of this forum,and the only thing I can see which is missing is, I feel that where ever you find to worship God can be home, but no matter what you decide to do is all in what you put in it. If you go to services and just sit there maybe that is what you what, but if you put your whole self in it you will what to come back without any question in your heart, no one can tell you how to worship or where you can worship but you and God! If you feel at home there then just stay, but you have to want it and feel it. God gives each and everyone of us a different call, and we have to pursue our way. The church is a place for us to share our beliefs and feelings to one another. To have rites together, to have special celebrations with one another, but it is all in strenghting our beliefs in God and to share this with all. Jesus said that we are the deciples of God, we are to go forth and spread the word. I can say this much I belonged to a parish in a richy end of town. I never felt at home their, it was OK but something was always missing. the services were very up, the celebrant used visual aids, music, modern songs to help communicate the word of God, but when the service was over, it seem like there was a mad dash for the door to leave. my family moved to a different community and the parish was more middle class, and also it was not so hip but, the thing I really injoy is after the service I have a hard time leaving. the people there just stop and start talking, making you feel right at home. they share themselves with each other. a complete family. It is hard to just leave there without talking to someone. I have been attending this church for ten years and it is not uncommin to spend an hour after services just talking to people. I do not sing because I am the worst singer in town, but I try to make up that in other ways.I have been teaching religious ed for ten years to 5th, 6th, and 7th graders. and this is where God has given me my call. I know that, when I leave my class and get home totally exhausted, I know God has sent the holy spirit to guide me that day, and I really feel really great, It gives me a total uplifting everytime. the best part of the whole thing is when the child comes to you grown up and give you a big hug and says thankyou, you made a big difference in my life, That is what it is about. Not the fact race, creed, color, ethinik back ground,or even what church it is the fact that God, the holy spirit is there with you, giving you that guidence, and what you put in it you will get out twice as much,Sorry I am alittle windy but really enjoy myself at this church, I feel right at home there it is a complete family. So like I said you will get out what you put in it, you have to want to be there or there will always be something missing. I know in myown heart is that when you get the call from God it will push you till you find it, and the key here is not to egnore that call.

Anthony wrote:

"However, I want to be clear on a point. I may have not been clear enough on this earlier. I don't think that most of our parishes have a very strong ethnic character. Many of them aren't very ethnic at all. But the REAL PROBLEM is the unspoken rule that our parishes exist only for "our people" - Eastern Europeans. At least in the minds of most visitors, this is the perception. So it isn't so much a problem of parishes emphasizing their ethnicity, all though this does happen. It is more an issue of the general perception that the Byzantine Church exists only for ethnics."

I think this is an interesting point. In my experience, the attraction of Byzantines to the RCC relates to a wide variety of factors, depending on the motivations behind the move.

For those who are more committed to the faith (even to the point of being candidates for holy orders), some of the prevalent factors I have seen are the perception of the RCC as the default Catholic Church here (which it is, at least in terms of number of parishes -- we can't argue that), and the reality that the RCC is much more "American" ( which is ironic, because this is largely because it has embraced many more of the trappings of American Protestantism, in terms of liturgy, meaning that people who grow up here and live in this culture find it easier, or more natural, to "relate" to that liturgy).

Other factors include (1) moving to areas where there are no Byzantine parishes (common today where people are so mobile), (2) convenience of being located closer to a Roman parish, and fact that Roman parish has more convenient liturgical schedule, with more options, (3) availability of Catholic schools at RC parishes (often not available at Byzantine parishes), (4) avilability of a wider variety of programs, groups, outreach, etc -- the typical Roman parish has a lot more, simply because it's so much bigger, and, last but not least, (5) anonymity -- a lot of people really prefer a more "anonymous" setting where they feel more "free" or less "watched" -- another product of our increasingly rootless, overly mobile contemporary American culture.

Brendan