GLORY BE TO JESUS CHRIST!

Dear Mateusz,

If you want to communicate in Polish, just
email me privately. You'll find my
email at http://www.mateusz.pl/goscie/grekat/psalmist.html

I also invite you to the discussion group
for Eastern Christians from Poland:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuskaWiara

Sincerely,
subdeacon Peter

Subdeacon Peter,

Chwala Jezusa Chrystusa!

Would you do me a favor? Would you write the SLAVONIC Cherubic Hymn in Polish script for me? I am in the choir at my Eastern Orthodox church, and the Cherubikon is written in Old Slavonic/Russian-Ukrainian usage script, which I am unable to decipher due to a dyslexic learning disability. But I *DO* read Polish very well (however, I do not speak it as well as I should like), and I would be able to sing the Slavonic Cherubikon if the letters were transliterated into either Polish or Slovak script. Thank you (dziekuje bardzo!)in advance for any help you can give me.

OrthodoxEast

I'm not sure that this what your looking for but this is the transliteration used in most of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Churches of the Old Church Slavonic text for the Cherubic Hymn:

Iže Cheruvimy tajno obrazujšče, i životvorjaščej Trojc'i trisvjatuju p'isň prinosjašče, vsjakuju nyňi žitelskoje otveržim pečal'.

Amiň. Jako da Carja vs'ich podimem, anhel'skimi nevidimo dorinosima činmi. Alliluia! Alliluia! Alliluia!

Choral versions often render the last word of the Iže as "popečenije'".

I'd love to help you, but which text (and which pronunciation) do you mean? For instance, our Slavonic version of Cherubicon varies from the
Administrator's one in at least two places.

Subdeacon Peter

Dear in Christ, Brat Subdeacon Peter!

Thank you so much. Your transliteration of the Slavonic text gives me all I need to sing my bass part of the Cherubikon at Divine Liturgy tomorrow morning. BARDZO DZIEKUJE! I owe you!

OrthodoxEast

Dear Administrator, thank you as well. I mistakenly thanked the good Subdeacon, but the Ruthenian version I can read too, as I read some Slovak. Whether in Polish or Slovak script, I can read it--it's Slavonic characters that I can't decipher.

If the good Subdeacon could do the same for me in Polish letters, I could even read it better!

OrthodoxEast

Nicky's Baba,

I thought you had always been eastern rite. Was your family of eastern heritage?

Rose

According our Ruthenian Liturgicon (Rome 1942)
and Ukrainian/Ruthenian fonetics:

Iże cheruwymy tajno obrazujuszcze i żywotworiaszczej Trojci tryswiatuju pisń prypiwajuszcze, wsiakoje nyni żytejskoje otłożym
popeczenije.
Jako da Caria wsich podymem, anhelskymy newydymo
dorynosyma czyńmy. Ałyłuja, ałyłuja, ałyłuja.

It this what you need? Or maybe you want to know
it according Russian (synodal) phonetics? Text
is the same in both versions - Administrator
cited pre-1942 version.

Sincerely,
subdeacon Peter

The Subcarpathian Ruthenian Church's text has:

...trisvjatuju pisn' prinosjas~c~e vsjakuju nyni z~itejskuju otverz~im pec~al'.

Is this a pre-Nikonian/Nikonian difference? If so, how did the Ukrainian Church end up with the same text as the Russians, while the Subcarpathian Church has this significantly different text?

Dear Lemko,

The Ukrainian Orthodox Metropolitan Ilarion Ohienko wrote that the UGCC was, at one point, heavily Russified and that the Vatican editions of UGCC publications continue to bear "Russisms" in the language to this day.

I don't know if this is what explains the sameness in the texts.

Alex

Was the Subcarpathian region part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time of the Nikonian reforms and therefore outside the Russo-Greek sphere of liturgical influence?

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Fr. Mark,
No, Subcarpathia was part of the Kingdom of Hungary for about 1,000 years -- never part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. But I think that in itself was enough to isolate it from the Nikonian reforms.

Reverend Father,

My answers are:

1. No, it was not, but
2. 1 notwithstanding, as a part of Hapsburg monarchy, present-day Transcarpathian Ukraine WAS outside the Nikonian sphere of influence, I suppose.

Sincerely,
subdeacon Peter

We both posted the same in almost one minute.

BTW, small part of present-day Preshov (Pryashiv ) eparchy - Spish district - were
under Polish rule some time.

Sincerely,
subdeacon Peter

You're correct -- a few villages/parishes belonged to the Eparchy of Peremyshl' for a time, but ended up in the Eparchy of Prjashiv. Anyway... I suspect that except for the liturgical chant, there was little difference between the Galician and Subcarpathian usages that would have been noticeable in those places. And I suspect they chant the same way today that they did back when they were under Peremyshl'.