Alex, the three-volume John XXIII parallel English and Latin edition of the Breviary of 1963 by the Liturgical Press (Collegeville) is readily available.

DEar Alex,

Unfortunatly I do not own a copy of the office but I am sure that a traditional Catholic book publishing company like TAN or Angelus Press might have something along those lines.

Personally, I am lucky to own several wonderful old missals and prayerbooks which I have been able to find in various places (Such as antique stores and yard sales). For instance, I am in possesion of an old REdemptorist mission book that dates from 1869. There is a wealth of prayers, hyms, and sermons available ona wide variaty of topics. Also of note, in the exortations for the examination of conscense before Holy Communion, there is actually refrences for both slaves and their masters on that matter! This is because (I believe) the first edition may have been published before the Civil War!

Sadly this splended little book has really started to show its weare and I am going to eventually either have to photocopy it or find some way to rebind it. It is dedicated to St. Alphonsis Luigori, has anyone else heard of it?

Robert K.

THANK YOU ALL AGAIN FOR YOUR KIND WORDS!!!

BE ASSURED THAT I SHALL CONTINUE TO REMAIN ON THIS MOST WONDERFUL FORUM!!!!

ROBERT KEARNEY

Dear Diak and Robert,

Thank you for your assistance!

I've also come across an English translation of the Breviary issued under Pope St Pius X called the "Anglican Breviary."

It has just been reprinted and contains aspects of the Anglican heritage as well, but it is, for the most part, the English translation of the traditional Latin Office, adapted for use by High Church Anglicans of the continuing tradition.

It is also recommended for traditional Roman Catholics and Western Rite Orthodox.

God bless!

Alex

Sorry for this off-topic question.

Do you know if Catholics are also allowed to celebrate the Tridentine Mass in the vernacular language?

The 'Tridentine' Mass may *not* be celebrated in the vernacular. When a priest celebrates Mass using the Missale Romanum of 1962, it has to be celebrated in Latin.

In Iesu et Maria,
Justin

hi everyone--

i'm new to the neighborhood, & i've got a few questions. feel free to jump in.

1) SPXers? pius X, maybe? i'm a little hazy on the definition & significance.

2)i'm still looking into byzantine catholicism. i've done some reading re: orthodoxy, but what differentiates a byzantine catholic from an orthodox from an rc. from context in this post line, i assume that byzantine catholics are in communion with rome (or, as someone else in here said, rome is in communion with byzantine catholicism), so that differentiates bc's from orthodox.

3) but how does "communion with rome" play out as a practical matter? the Divine Liturgy is, obviously, different. do you include the filioque in the Creed? do you use the ortho. lectionary, or the rc? when do you celebrate Easter? what (if any) say does the Pope have in the selection of primates?

as i said--i have a few question , & i'm looking forward to your (gentle) responses.

God bless--
scott

hi everyone--

re: my last posting--did i misspeak? should i have said metropolitan or eparch instead of primate?
if i messed up, sorry about that.

God bless--

scott

Scott,

1. Society of St. Pius X is a groups that broke from Rome over its objections to certain aspects associated with Vatican II. It original organizers were ultraconservative Frenchmen who had been associated with the Vichy regime.

2. You are right. The primary and fundemental differences between Greek Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox is communion with the Pope. Other matters are mostly of the cultural and particular types that naturally evolve among the heirs of a common patrimony that are administratively distinct.

3) Some Greek Catholics use the filioque, some put it in parens, most do not. Most Grek Catholics follow the date for Easter than is commonly used in the society they live in. A few use the traditional date even when the Latin usage is the most common.

Neither Orthodoxy nor Catholicism have much of a theology as to HOW bishops are selected. So a variety of means have been used in the course of history by both communions. Presently, Eastern Catholic Churches headed by a Patriarch or Archbishop Major have their bishops elected by their Holy Synod. In other situations, the Holy See has assumed the role formerly excerized by the civil authorities.

Welcome Scott,


1) The Society of St. Pius X is dedicated to the pre Vatican II Tridentine Mass and related practices. They are considered to be in schism, or outside the Catholic Church.

2) Axios is basically correct in that communion with the Pope is central to the differences between Eastern Catholics and Orthodox. There are 22 (I think) Particular Churches in Communion with Rome, mostly defined by their nationalities. Most, but not all, of these have a corresponding "national" Orthodox Church. These 22 Churches vary in their structures and liturgy and also in their calendars.

3) An example of how communion with Rome works out occured at the end of 2000, when Cardinal Lubachivsky, head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, fell asleep in the Lord. The Pope was preparing a list of new Cardinals, to be appointed in February, 2001.

The Ukrainian Synod met at about the same time as the Pope was scheduled to announce the new Cardinals. They selected Bishop Lubomyr Husar as the new Metropolitan Archbishop of Lviv (the highest post of the Ukrainian Church, commonly called Patriarch by the faithful).

Pope John Paul II, aware that this Synod was to make a selection, withheld some of the Cardinals' names for a week, until he was informed of the new election in Ukraine. He responded by adding Patriarch Lubomyr to his list when he announced the second part of the list of new Cardinals.

Thus, we have arrived at His Beatitude Patriarch Lubomyr Cardinal Husar, Major Archbishop of Lviv, Metropolitan of Halych, Bishop of Kamianets-Podilsky, Father and Head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.

Say that three times fast!

Have a Blessed Ukrainian Independence Day !!!

John
Pilgrim and Odd duck

[ 08-24-2002: Message edited by: Two Lungs ]

SO much easier just to say, His Beatitude Lubmyr, Patriarch of Kiyv, Lviv and Halich, isn't it? Anyway, it works liturgically for the Ukrainians, and who are we to argue with them?

Dear Stuart,

Some years back, there were those of us who referred to Patriarch Josef the Confessor as "His HOliness."

Is there anything wrong with that title?

Alex

No, I can't think of a word that better describes Patriarch Josef.

Dear Stuart,

So you are a Patriarchalist!

Did you know that when the Patriarch was arrested, they brought his livestock to my grandfather's farm?

He was then on the horns of a dilemma . . .

God bless, Mentor!

Alex

"The Society of St. Pius X is dedicated to the pre Vatican II Tridentine Mass and related practices. They are considered to be in schism, or outside the Catholic Church."

I'm not completely sure about this. The SSPX is considered to have an irregular status.
I doubt they are considered a complete schism because two of those Bishops that were "ilegaly ordained" by a French bishop, formed another Society, approved by JPII and Cardinal Ratzinger.