do all byzantine catholics fast during this time now? and if so....what r the regulations ?

Hi Mateusz,

The Apostles fast was recently discussed here

http://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002108

I didn't get involved, I don't know enough about it. However, it seems that this fast has a unique (to me anyway) characteristic of having a moveable beginning and a fixed ending. That leaves open the possibility of being extremely short (or not at all?, on the new calendar)! Varying by the year.

Perhaps that is why it's optional for Ruthenian Byzantines.

Michael

I don't think that most folks do, but I suspect that there is a spiritual awareness of St. Peter and the feast. During these "minor lents" (including the Dormition fast), I think that many folks will abstain from meat and possibly dairy on the Fridays and perhaps on the Wednesdays.

I think the absolute key factor is the fact that we Byzantines (and our fellow Eastern brethren) are REALLY calendar people. We are very aware of the cycles of feasts and fasts, and what we are doing churchily.

And while we may not be "observant" according to the "rules" or "regulations", the fact is that we are aware, and this is what counts. One must always remember (despite what some would say) we are very much identified with our church as well as the ethnicities and cultural aspects that combined give us our personal identities. We are less rule-bound, and more "identifiers"; this, of course, drives the legal folks crazy because we are not easily boxed.

We pray with the Orthodox, and do strange ceremonies, commune infants, give our bishops salt and keys, have sacred icons and use incense like there's no tomorrow, and bring flowers, plants and grapes to church. And we sing EVERYTHING except the phone book, and I'm sure SOMEWHERE there's a rubric for that too!! [Dry Cleaners in the 4th Tone!!!!]

So, the result of all this: be a living, breathing, giving and volunteering member of the parish. And ask for advice from the other folks. Read the rule books; then, close them. And talk with your fellow Christians.

Blessings!

i see....i am in the process of becomming ukrainian catholic but its not official yet, but the priest didnt mention anything abt the apostles fast nor was it in the bulletin.

Why is the Feast of SS. Peter and Paul not a Holy Day of Obligation for the Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Churches in America while the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Churches have it on their liturgical calendar as a Holy Day of Obligation??

Ung-Certez

Dear Ung-Certez,

Well, it is on my Ukrainian Catholic Calendar up here!

My experience is fast becoming that one should not be surprised by anything that may occur in the parishes south of the border . . .

My parish also enforces the Wednesday/Friday weekly fasts as well.

Just never go to confession there to say you didn't fast . . .

Adultery etc. - yes, those sins do happen.

But breaking the fast?

Look out!!

Alex

Dear Mateusz,

Why didn't you say you were in training to become a Ukrainian Catholic?

Welcome, dear brother!

Remember all that stuff about St Peter that I disagreed with you on the other thread?

I take it all back!

Alex

Even south of the border you can find both the Fast indicated on the Ukrainian Catholic calendars, the feast highlighted as a solemn feast day, and the prominence of the fast and feast is still mentioned from the pulpit in some places.

thanks for the welcome orthodox catholic!hopefully i can be byzantine soon.

at the ukrainian parish i joined...we just follow a general byzantine calender i think. the actual calender i got is from the byzantine seminary press in pittsburgh under the most reverend basil M. Schott, and it said the apostles fast began monday and ends on the 28th, the day before the sunday of the feast of the prime apostles, sts. peter and paul.

Dear Mateusz,

If I am correct, I believe the Petrine Fast is the only Fast that does not have a set length of fast days - while it ends on the Feast of the Apostles on June 29/July 12, its beginning depends on the paschal cycle and therefore the days assigned to it vary from year to year.

Alex

Alex,
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Yes, the Apostle's Fast begins on the evening of the Sunday of All Saints (which follows Pentecost Sunday) after Vespers.
It lasts until June 28.
Deacon El

Dear Father Deacon,

See! And I didn't go to seminary either!

God bless you,

Alex

Alex, Diak,

Why is it only a Solemn Holy Day and not a Holy Day of Obligation? We're talking about the prime apostles. Why do some Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Churches put more emphasis on Latin feasts (Christ the King, Sacred Heart of Jesus, etc.) and then not honor "Sv. Petra i Pavlo" with an obligatory feast? It doen't make sense.

Ung-Certez

Opps! I forgot... What happens now?

"Day of Obligation" is an entirely Latin designation and underlies a Latin sense of duty and obligation. I am glad to see it removed from some of the Ukrainian calendars. People in glass houses...

None of the feasts you have mentioned were ever considered days of obligation even at the height of Latinization in the UGCC. In our local UGCC parish neither of the first two have even been mentioned in at least ten years. Sts. Peter and Paul have.

Historically some Ruthenian parishes also observed these two Latin-inspired feasts. Frankly I don't see your point. I also don't have a problem with the transformation of Sacred Heart to Christ the Lover of Mankind as it is now officially referred to in the UGCC, which is a uniquely Byzantine title for Christ. This was a brilliant move by Patriarch Josyp to take a Latinization and provide a positive opportunity for transmitting Byzantine tradition.

If you are trying to one-up Latinizations no Greek Catholic Church, Melkites included, are free from them. And there is no positive benefit in trying to hash back through them one at a time, but rather to procede to recapture Byzantine tradition through each particular Greek Catholic church.

Diak, you say that the labeling of feastdays as
an obligation is a Latinization. But if these are
"mandatory feastdays", as it is thought to be in most Orthodox Churches, is it not a Latinization to label these as "Solemn feastdays", meaning they are not as important as those feastdays that honor Christ or the Mother of God? When were these feastdays toned down, and what bishops
allowed these particular feastdays to be celebrated in a lesser manor? I'm not singling out any particualr Ukrainian parish, but I know of many that still have June Molebens to the Sacred Heart and Roman Eucharistic Benediction afterwards. Why not celebrate the Feast of SS Peter & Paul with more honor other than just passing it off as a mere "lower" feastday? I'm not critizing the Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Church, I just wanted to know why it is celebrated in a lesser manner.

Ung-Certez

Just some general comments:

Dormition, Christmas, Theophany, Ascension, SS Peter & Paul are codifed in the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches as Holy Days of Obligation (in addition to all Sundays) for all Eastern Catholic Churches. Particular Churches may add to them or subtract from them. The Ruthenian Byzantine Metropolia has not added any.

According to the Synod of the Ukrainian Catholic Church:

"Holy Days of Obligation

'In order to accommodate the faithful, the Synod has resolved that the faithful of the Ukrainian Catholic Church are obliged to observe, in addition to Sundays, the following church holydays, and to adhere to the following obligations: to participate in the Divine Liturgy, to hear the homily and to refrain from servile work.

In addition to Sundays, the following Church holydays are considered Holy Days of Obligation:

Nativity of Our Lord (Dec. 25)
Theophany of Our Lord (Jan. 6)
Ascension of Our Lord (40 days after Easter)
Annunciation of the Blessed Theotokos (Mar. 25)
Dormition of Blessed Virgin Mary (Aug. 15)
Feast of the Apostles Peter & Paul (Jun. 29)

The Synod enourages all faithful to take part in the liturgical services on the following traditional feast days of our Church:

Circumcision of Our Lord Jesus Christ (Jan. 1)
Transfiguration of Our Lord (Aug. 6)
Exaltation of the Holy Cross (Sep. 14)'

Synod of the Ukrainian Catholic Church held on Jan. 20, 1998"

I believe that formerly, at least in the US Metropolia, the Conception of the Mother of God and the Circumcision of Our Lord were included. Obviously they no longer are.

As to Holy days of "Obligation" I think it is unfare to blame this on the Latins as we invented this one. Very early, Eastern Councils legislated fasting, confession, and reception of the Eucharist on Pascha, Christmas, Dormition and a little later SS Peter & Paul.

Also the OCA counts SS Peter & Paul and The Birth and Beheading of St. John the Forerunner as Great Feasts alongside the traditional 12 Great Feasts.

In Christ,
Reader Lance

Whoa, here. It seems being so "canonical" as to rely on Canon Law to direct our liturgical observances is, well, highly Latin, Lance. I had to study and be tested on the CCEO and the Particular Law in my diaconate program, also.

This understanding is certainly not present in mystogical thought in such fathers as Cyril of Jerusalem, or most of the Fathers for that matter.

Every Christian should feel a need not an obligation to worship God on solemn feast days. That's my point. For example, the Old Believer communities don't have to post "days of obligation". They simply worship together on those days.

And to be exact, the promulgation for holydays in the UGCC in North America was done through the promulgation of the Pastoral Guide/Archeparchial Statutes signed by the Metropolitan and all Bishops of the USA on November 8, 1999. This references and confirms the decision of the Synod of September, 1997 which first established these.

These days to be observed under a "serious obligation" are:
All Sundays of the year; the Nativity of Christ; the Theophany; the Ascension; the Annunciation; the Dormition; and THE PRIME APOSTLES PETER AND PAUL. No mention of Sacred Heart, Corpus Christi, etc. These days are, of course, in addition to the Easter observance.

The Apostles Fast is also mentioned in the section on fasting times in the Pastoral Guide/Archeparchial Statutes for the UGCC in the USA.

Subdeacon Randolph,

I am not trying to be contentious, please forgive me if I came off that way. I too would agree that legislating Holy Days of Obligation is not the best way to go. From my own observation it has no effect on minimlaist parishes, the people blow them off anyway. In fervent parishes the people go far beyond the minimum five mandated.

I just think it is unfare to call it a Latinization as I stated above we started it althought the concept was slightly different and was directed at a minimum level of Eucharistic Participation in order to remain in good standing as opposed to being required to santify this or that feast.

As well, while it may not fit into our traditional mystagogy, if it is on the books there is no use pretending it is not, as those who wish to malign us love to point out such things.

In Christ,
Reader Lance

I agree Lance. It is difficult to crawl into the minds of the legislators and figure out what is making the clock tick.

I would still maintain that the whole idea of the establishment of "obligation" for Eucharistic observace is at least partly derived from a post-medieval Latin approach to the sacraments, in which the mystical was to a great degree abandoned for a more empirical or "bottom line" approach to sacramental thought, which also produced such concepts as form and matter, liceity vs. validity, etc.

The manifestation of this more empirical approach can be seen in this sense of obligation rather than focusing on the catechetical and legislative approaches to foster the need or love for becoming closer to God, to realizing theosis through the reception of the Mysteries and worship of God.

Have a great and holy Apostles Fast!

Dear Ung-Certez,

If we can just step away from those liturgical experts, Lance and Diak, for a moment

I could not agree more with you.

I too don't understand why our Latinized Ukie Catholic Basilians and parishes insist on celebrating those Latin feasts EVEN when the Vatican doesn't expect us to any longer.

It was because the feasts of Corpus Christi and the Sacred Heart come first that the feast of All Saints of Rus'-Ukraine had to be placed on the FOURTH Sunday after Pentecost, rather than on the Second Sunday - like the Orthodox Churches do.

But no, we can't be made to resemble the Orthodox! Not at all - people might catch the "schismatic bug!"

So Vatican II and the Decree on Eastern Catholic Churchs, for these, is something that happened to other people . . .

One would think that the Feast of Sts Peter and Paul would figure more prominently among so papalist a crowd too

Unless we all make the commitment to study our Eastern Church traditions, we will continue to be Eastern on the outside but Western on the inside.

Alex

I know there's a forest beyond these trees somewhere...

I would posit, Alex, as I did above, that Patriarch Josyp's transformation of the Sacred Heart feast/devotions to Christ the Lover of Mankind was a brilliant move to "byzantinize" a latinization in a positive way and perhaps an example of how to replace latinizations with Byzantine practices.

We just can't simply remove devotions which we can't deny are still present and adhered to by some. These must be replaced in a sensible manner with those closer to the tradition.