Anthony,

Let me just say that I sympathize with you. Since just recently becoming familiar with Eastern Catholicism myself(about 8 months ago), I realise the treasure you have! For months I have spent countless hours on the internet, reading books, and now conversing with you fine people in my hunger for Byzantine Catholicism.

Let me perhaps improve your outlook on things. I attend a Byzantine Church with ALOT of young people(babies-late teens). Aside from that, Liturgy always brings a near packed house on Sunday(its a descent sized church, too). There are young families, old families, you name it.

We are a very ethnically diverse parish. There are more then a few people whose last name's end in O'something Our parish priest is Italian! I am aware that alot of Roman Catholics are becoming familiar with their Eastern brothers and sisters. I think if Byzantine Catholics just made themselves more known in the community, than many more Roman Catholics would come to know and love your Tradition(like me). I don't know; maybe like Sunday breakfasts held between the local Roman and Byzantine parishes.

I pray that the Byzantine Church flourishes. What a tragedy if this Tradition vanished from the Church!

Christ is Risen!

P.S, We are also a very Eastern church. Latinizations are at a minimum

Dear Columcille,

I have an acquaintance who was formerly a nun belonging to a Roman Catholic order.

Her Protestant parents disowned her when she became RC.

When she began developing an interest in the Byzantine Rite and attending a Byzantine Catholic Liturgy, her Mother Superior told her she couldn't etc. and otherwise threw up all sorts of roadblocks.

She left and is now with the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

I don't think RC's would be supportive of potentially losing their members to the Byzantine Rite, especially RC's who don't like the Novus Ordo.

Do you?

Alex

"I don't think RC's would be supportive of potentially losing their members to the Byzantine Rite, especially RC's who don't like the Novus Ordo."

How true that is -- but not only for those who dislike the novus ordo, but also for the novus ordo types. The first group doesn't like losing conservatives -- they feel they need them in the trenches in the parishes waging the liturgical warfare. The second group feels inherently threatened by the Eastern Church (Byzantine Catholic or Orthodox) because it represents a completely non-modernist approach -- and so departure for one of the Eastern Churches is sometimes seen by this group as a sign of a retrograde mentality, believe it or not.

Believe me, I took more heat from relatives and others when I went from Roman to Byzantine than when I went from Byzantine to Orthodox.

Brendan

It is quite sad the Latin church would have a measureable amount of right-wingers dedicated to "waging liturgical warfare." I've never understood how these people can so miss the Christian message.

K.

You make a point. But I think it comes down to education. I'm not talking about a mass(no pun intended exodus out of the Roman Church to join the Byzantine Church. I think things would improve if Roman Catholics, as a whole, knew more about their Byzantine brothers and sisters. I'll admit that when I first walked into a Byzantine Church; I wasn't REALLY sure it was Catholic. Only after seeing the Papal flag in the corner was a assured.

As far as your final point, let me say this. I believe there is a move to silence the portion of Roman Catholcism that retains orthodox beliefs and practices. Given the modern trends, I think alot of RC's would ENCOURAGE traditional Roman Catholics to go elsewhere, as we are a stumbling block to the vocal, feminist, liberal activists in the Church.

Perhaps you don't know what its like for some traditional Catholics in these ultra-liberal parishes.

Dear Brendan,

You are remarkable in so many ways and it is an honour and a privilege to be associated with you and to learn from you on this Forum!

What I admire most about you is your keen sociological insights which, I believe, religious analysis and thought always benefits from (at least some of the time anyway).

When I attended an RC high school, I really got the brunt of what I can only call anti-Byzantinism from the nuns and the priests.

My Church was the "odd Rite." I visited my old school several months ago and one of my former teachers still (!) said, "Oh yes, Alex, you were of the Odd Rite!"

I refused to genuflect at public ceremonies and the principal would drag me back to the front of the Altar before everyone to make me genuflect.

People would turn to look at me while I Crossed myself three times during school prayer.

The Old Calendar was also a great big problem.

Not that I'm bitter . . .

I'm really not. The RC's have come along way.

God bless,

Alex

I can't imagine how a Catholic parish could justifabley drive someone to anti-Christian behavior.

K.

Now Kurt,

I don't know why you are picking on our friend FightingIrish, but I wish you would stop.

I have been educated on staying away from the RC's internal struggle between the Trads and the Novus Ordo. We get squashed when we do so. Let us heed that wisdom and stay out of it. I do understand FightingIrish's aguish and I pray that he find his way to a full conversion to the Eastern way or find peace in a Traditional or at least a congregation amongst the RC's that respects the traditional. Let's not make fun of his struggle.

Dan L

>>>I can't imagine how a Catholic parish could justifabley drive someone to anti-Christian behavior.<<<

So what's your excuse, then, Kurt?

There is not much room in the RC for people who prefer the old traditions. In the two closest diocese to me, there is a lot of liberalism, leftism, and liturgical abuse. A few parishes are almost indistinguishable from Protestantism. A person who wants more traditionalism in the RC can be made to feel like a real outsider.

I chose to attend an Eastern parish (2 1/2 hours away). I take more than a little heat from my family, comments such as, "Why can't you be normal?" or, "At least you're going again." (I was apostate and anti-Catholic for almost 20 years.) My wife comes from an area where there are almost no Eastern Catholics. At first she was very upset about attending one of their parishes. Now she's more accepting. The rest (older in their 70s) think it's "crazy". One even said the liturgy "sounds like jibber-jabber to me".

I'm really worried about how and where we're going to raise our son. What they're teaching today is nothing like the RC I learned as a child. My wife is resistant to a canonical change of ritual - but can't really explain why, except that "the rules are stricter".

Dear Stuart,

It is said that a saint that doesn't smile is no saint at all.

You'll never have a problem in that department, Friend in Christ!

Thank you for making this day all that brighter!

Alex

Dear Entomos,

Your post reminds me of the day our University Chaplain (a great Irish Catholic missionary who was actually tortured during the Biafran War)invited a priest to serve a Byzantine Liturgy in our Chapel.

My RC colleagues said they liked it, but that there were "too many Lord have mercy's," and too much repetition, too long, too this, too that . . .

When I shared this with the Chaplain, a Spiritan Father and a liturgist in his own Rite (pun intended), he simply smiled at me with those big Irish eyes and said, "Now, Alex, what would you expect from that crowd? What sense of liturgical sophistication do you think they have?"

I hope it wasn't snooty of me to agree with him . . .

Alex

I have a Roman Catholic student in my Comparative Religion class who complains that the 45 min. mass is way too long. She seems genuinely shocked that I disagree and had a curious expression on her face when I suggested that when Christ becomes real to her then time will mean nothing and her watch will become offensive to her just as it is offensive to God now.

Dan Lauffer

[This message has been edited by CD Lauffer (edited 04-25-2001).]

>>>I hope it wasn't snooty of me to agree with him . . .<<<

Not at all. I agree with you agreeing with him