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Quote
Originally posted by Halychanyn:
Do you think Met. Archbishop Stefan is heading toward ordaining married men into the priesthood?
Hal,

I'm picking him up at the airport this coming week, will see if I can work the question into the conversation.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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I have a question that just occurred to me this evening. Is there any history of married clergy in the Byzantine Russian Catholic Church?

The Church, as a distinct entity, is still very new. It was only 1896, if I remember correctly, that Father Nicholas Tolstoy, of blessed memory, was received into communion with Rome. A mere 20 years later the Church came under persecution, from which it has only really emerged in the past 12-15 years, and still has only a marginal existence in its native land. In the diaspora, as far as I know, its US and Australian clergy are celibate - not as sure about its limited presence in Western Europe.

I'm wondering if it ever had the opportunity to develop a tradition of married clergy?

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Neil, actually the great majority of the Russian Catholic priests in Russia were married. Frs. Eustachy Susalev, Patapy Emlianov, Ivan Deubner and his son Alexander], Alexis Zerchaninov, and others were all married. Several of these were functioning Russian Orthodox parish priests who were part of the "Soloviev circle" and were married.

Actually with the exception of St. Leonid Federov, who was a monk, and the "Russian Jesuits", the remainder have generally been married.

In Australia Fr. Lawrence Cross is married, and in the USA Fr. Chrysostom Frank is married. Fr. Andrei Udovenko in Moscow is married. There are a couple more in formation who are married.

Back to Metropolitan Stefan, he publically stated after his elevation to Metropolitan that he would take "good candidates", celibate or not. As someone has mentioned, the word is St. Josaphat's will be taking married candidates when it reopens after remodelling.

Paul - the UGCC has probably about 50% married clergy in North America now. The Romanian eparchy, while smaller in size, probably has at least that ratio and perhaps higher of married clergy.

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Randy,

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the fact that many of the early priests were from the RO clergy and would likely have been married. After you pointed it out, I realized that I was aware of Father Chrysostom being married.

Quote
Originally posted by Diak:
the UGCC has probably about 50% married clergy in North America now
The Romanians don't surprise me with their numbers, but I'm a bit taken aback by that high a number with the UGCC. Is that accounted for chiefly because of high numbers in Canada, immigrant married priests, or married candidates sent to the old country for ordination? Any idea how it breaks out among those?

Many years,

Neil


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Neil, I believe a majority of those are "imports" or priests who were originally ordained in Rome, Ukraine, etc. or are Ukrainian priests "on loan" to North American eparchies.

With the exception of the Eparchy of Toronto there has not been a great number of "domestic" ordinations of married men, but there have been a few.

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Hallo Niel Paul

In Australia are at least 3 married priest in the Ukranian Church. One is a young priest whom I will meet in November when he will be visiting New Zealand.
There is somewhere a Melkite connection in Auckland but I have been unable to get contact.

Wilhelm

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Originally posted by Wilhelm:
There is somewhere a Melkite connection in Auckland but I have been unable to get contact.
Wilhelm,

Welcome to the Forum. I think I recognize your name from CINEAST.

Here's some info on Saint Elias, the Melkite parish in NZ:

Father Georges Albutros
Parish Priest
Saint Elias Melkite Greek Catholic Parish
5 Mt Lebanon Crescent
Manurewa NZ 1702
Phone: (64 9) 2671124
Fax: (64 9) 2671124
Email: vicar-nz@melkite.org.au

God grant you many years,

Neil


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Hi Niel

many thanks. Yes I am at Cineast to,corect.
I have writen to Fr. George.
I am sure that there will be an answer.

Thanks will. / Wilhelm-us

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Yes there are married priest in Italy attached to the 2 Eparchies in the south. Italy does not ahve the double juristiction that occours in places like the USA, Canada and Australia. They actually have their 2 tiny diocese next door to Latin diocese. The Exarchate of Grottaferrata is about 4 square Kms. You step out of the monastery fortified front gate and you cross into the diocese of Frascati.

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I wondered what had happened in Australia about ordinnation of married man.

In 1999 38 bishops against 2 agreed with Eparch Peter and Eparch Isaam that there was no objection to the ordinations of married men.
Fr Felix had to go the Ukraine. That was only several years ago.
The Eparchs have tested the water of late and still only 2 Bishops are against the ordinations.
Married men are not send away anymore for ordinations. I wonder if the Nuncio has forked out payment for the cost of the trip. Priests don't earn that much.
Australia is a new country open to change. There is no turning back. The year is 2004 not 1904

Wilhelm

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I thought after Bishops Peter and Issam wrote the letter and gave the presentation at the '99 Australian Bishop's Conference it was a done deal and the ABC even put out an informational pamphlet about the Eastern Catholics which said straight out that the Easterns ordained married clergy.

I do know Fr. Lawrence Cross, the married Russian Catholic priest, was ordained there by the Melkites.

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Five years ago the radio program Catholic Answers Live gave figures of over 300 married Latin Rite priests in Great Britain, and over 100 in the US. The priests in GB were almost exclusively former Anglicans, while those in the US also included several ex-Lutherans.

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Neil,
I believe that Bishop John was called to the carpet for that ordination. One of the parishoners of St Basils who was moving toward the deaconate and had hope of ordination while being married went to the Antiochian Church because of this.

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Ron, Bishop John has ordained several married men in the past few years. The ordination of Fr. Andre St. Germain back in the mid-90s even made it into the RC magazine "30 days" and a Latin canonist in the article made a clear canonical case for the right of the Greek Catholics to do this.

When Cardinal Silvestrini was questioned by "L'Osservetore Romano" in the case of Fr. Andre, he said "it is not good that a third party intervene", clearly indicating that Rome had absolutely no interest in the matter.

When Bishop Losten of Stamford ordained two married men a couple of years ago for the Ukrainians, he heard nothing from Rome but was congratulated by the local RC bishop.

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Just this weekend at my daughters' soccer game I was talking for a while with a friend of mine (whose son is on my daughters' team) who is a Melkite married priest. He is originally from the Middle East, but has lived in the States for many years and was only recently ordained. So not exactly an "immigrant" married priest, since he wasn't ordained until much later than his immigration.

I believe he went back to the Middle East to actually be ordained.

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