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Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests

Posted By: Economos Roman V. Russo

Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/14/14 01:59 PM

Check today's blog from Sandro Magister 'Chiesa': it's official and in writing!
Posted By: Our Lady's slave

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/14/14 02:14 PM

Link please Father - I'm having problems finding it

Edited - FOUND IT

The Blog - in Italian

Quote
La novità è ufficiale. La congregazione per le Chiese orientali ha reso pubbliche le disposizioni approvate da papa Francesco che di fatto liberalizzano l’ordinazione e l’attività pastorale di preti sposati delle Chiese cattoliche orientali anche al di fuori dei loro territori tradizionali. E cioè non più solo in Medio Oriente e nell’Europa dell’est, ma dappertutto......


which according to Google translates roughly as

Quote
The news is official. The Congregation for the Oriental Churches has made public the arrangements approved by Pope Francis de facto liberalize ordination and pastoral activity of married priests of the Eastern Catholic Churches outside of their traditional territories. And that is not just in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, but all over the world........


BUT there seems to be a sting in the tail frown

Quote
La terza modalità riguarda infine i territori – è il caso dell’Italia – “dove i fedeli orientali sono privi di una struttura amministrativa specifica e sono affidati alle cure dei vescovi latini del luogo”. In questo caso la disciplina non cambia e quindi la facoltà di ammettere clero uxorato “continuerà ad essere riservata alla congregazione per le Chiese orientali, che la eserciterà in casi concreti ed eccezionali dopo aver sentito il parere delle rispettive conferenze episcopali”.
which according to Google means
Quote
The third mode regards, finally, the territories - is the case of Italy - "where the Eastern faithful are without a specific administrative structure and are under the care of the Latin Bishops of the place." In this case, the rules do not change and therefore the right to allow married clergy "will continue to be reserved to the Congregation for Eastern Churches, that the exercise to real cases and exceptional after hearing the opinion of the respective episcopal conferences."


hmmmmmm
Posted By: rome1453

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/14/14 02:21 PM

http://magister.blogautore.espresso...sati-orientali-valido-in-tutto-il-mondo/
Posted By: griego catolico

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/14/14 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
Check today's blog from Sandro Magister 'Chiesa': it's official and in writing!


If it's official, then why is there nothing posted on the Vatican website nor on the Vatican News website?

The webpage for the Congregation for the Oriental Churches has nothing-- in fact, the latest posted news is from last year! shocked

They really need to get their act together...

I am happy to hear the news, but it would be nice to see it posted on the Vatican website somewhere and not through Sandro Magister. Then, again, I can see why it wouldn't be posted on the Vatican website.

Looks like the decision was made in June. Wonder why they waited until now?

I'm sure media outlets like National Catholic Reporter will run with this story and ask if this is not a foreshadowing of things to come in the Latin Church.

Posted By: Fr. Jon

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/14/14 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by griego catolico
Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
Check today's blog from Sandro Magister 'Chiesa': it's official and in writing!


If it's official, then why is there nothing posted on the Vatican website nor on the Vatican News website?

The webpage for the Congregation for the Oriental Churches has nothing-- in fact, the latest posted news is from last year! shocked

They really need to get their act together...

I am happy to hear the news, but it would be nice to see it posted on the Vatican website somewhere and not through Sandro Magister. Then, again, I can see why it wouldn't be posted on the Vatican website.



Remember.... in the Catholic Church, we update our technology every 80 years - whether we need to or not!

Posted By: Anthony

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/15/14 01:56 AM

This is welcome news, but I don't understand why this is coming to light now when the Pope issued this decision in June. Hopefully, they weren't trying to keep this on the down low as not to offend RC sensibilities.
Posted By: Messdiener

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/15/14 08:47 AM

A ByzCath exclusive translation will be coming out shortly.

Too bad that you all broke the news before we did though!
Posted By: Latin Catholic

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/15/14 09:55 AM

The official Italian text was published in the Acta Apostolicæ Sedis, vol. CVI, no. 6, June 6, 2014, pp. 496-499. PDF version here.
Posted By: Irish Melkite

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/15/14 05:25 PM

I received a scan of the Italian text on Thursday night, through the kindness of my dear friend and fellow forumite, Charles Bransom. Another good friend, Ryan/Messdiener, was kind enough to work with me on it until the early hours of Friday morning; he doing the vast bulk of the translation by far. I can only claim to have polished it a bit here and there to deal with idiomatic usages.

So, as Ryan promised above, here it is ...

Quote
ACTS OF THE CONGREGATION

CONGREGATION FOR THE EASTERN CHURCHES

Pontifical Ruling Regarding Married Eastern Clergy

A) Introductory Note

Canon 758 §3 [of the] CCEO (Oriental Code of Canon Law) states that: "Regarding the admission to holy orders of married [men], the particular law of [each] Church sui iuris or special norms established by the Apostolic See are to be observed."

That allows that each Church sui iuris can decide on the admission of married [men] to holy orders.

At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.

Thus, the Canon provides that the Apostolic See can enact special rules in this regard.

The Holy Father Benedict XVI, in his post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation Ecclesia in Medio Oriente (Churches in the Middle East) of 14 September 2012, after having stated that "priestly celibacy is an inestimable gift of God to His Church, which must be accepted with gratitude, both in the East and in the West because it is a prophetic, timeless sign,” reminded that “the ministry of married priests is a component of the ancient Eastern traditions,” and encouraged them because “with their families, [they] are called to holiness in the faithful exercise of their ministry and in their living conditions in difficult times."

The issue of the ministry of married priests outside the traditional eastern territories dates back to the final decades of the nineteenth century, especially since 1880, when thousands of Ruthenian Catholics emigrated from Sub-Carpathia, as well as western Ukraine, to the United States of America. The presence of their married clergy aroused protests by the Latin Bishops that their presence would cause gravissium scandalum [grave scandal] to the Latin faithful. Thus, the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith, by decree of October 1, 1890, forbade married Ruthenian clergy to reside in the US.

In 1913, the Holy See decreed that only celibates could be ordained as priests in Canada.

In the years 1929-1930, the then-Congregation for the Eastern Church (CCO) issued three decrees, which prohibited the exercise of ministry by married Eastern priests in certain regions:

1) the Decree Cum Data Fuerit of March 1, 1929, by which [the Congregation] forbade the exercise of ministry by married Ruthenian clergy who emigrated to North America.

2) the Decree Qua Sollerti of 23 December 1929, by which [the Congregation] extended its prohibition of ministry to all married Eastern clergy who emigrated to North or South America, to Canada, or to Australia.

3) the Decree Graeci-Rutheni of 24 May 1930, by which [the Congregation] stated that only celibate men could be admitted to the seminary and promoted to holy orders.

Deprived of ministers of their own rite, a number, estimated at about 200,000, of the Ruthenian faithful passed into Orthodoxy.

The referenced legislation was extended to other territories not considered 'eastern regions'; exceptions were granted only after hearing from the local Episcopal Conference and receiving permission from the Holy See.

Since the problem persisted, the Congregation for the Eastern Churches involved the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. On 20 February 2008, having reviewed the entire matter in Ordinary Session, [the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith] rendered the following decision: "Considering the existing rule - which binds Eastern priests in pastoral service to the faithful in the diaspora to obligatory celibacy, similarly to Latin priests - in specific and exceptional cases, the possibility of a dispensation exists, [which is] reserved to the Holy See.” The above was approved by the Holy Father Benedict XVI.

It should be noted that, even in the West, in recent times, with the [issuance of the] motu proprio Anglicanorum Coetibus, although not written for the Eastern clergy, a discipline was adopted, [which] considered specific situations of [married] priests and their families coming into Catholic communion.

B) Provisions approved by the Holy Father

The Plenary Session of the Congregation for the Eastern Churches, held 19 to 22 November 2013 at the Apostolic Palace, discussed the issue extensively and subsequently presented to the Holy Father a request to concede to their Ecclesiastical Authority the faculty to allow pastoral service by married Eastern clergy outside of the traditional eastern territories.

The Holy Father, in the audience granted to the Prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, December 23, 2013, approved that request

contrariis quibuslibet minimum ostantibus, (all considerations to the contrary notwithstanding)

according to the following guidelines:

- in the Eastern Administrative Constituencies (Metropolia, Eparchies, Exarchates) constituted outside of the traditional territories, these faculties are conferred on the Eastern Hierarchs, to exercise according to the traditions of their respective Churches. Also, the Ordinary, possessing faculties to ordain married Eastern candidates from a respective region, [has] an obligation to give prior notice, in writing, to the Latin Bishop of the candidate's place of residence, so as to obtain his opinion and any relevant information [regarding the candidate].

- in Ordinariates for the Eastern faithful who are deprived of their own Hierarchs, the faculty [to ordain married men to the priesthood] is conferred on the Ordinary, and he shall inform the respective Episcopal Conference and this Dicastry of the specific cases in which he exercises [the faculty].

- in territories in which the Eastern faithful are deprived of a specific administrative structure and are entrusted to the care of the Latin Bishops of the place, the faculty [to ordain married men to the priesthood] will continue to be reserved to the Congregation for the Eastern Churches, which will pursue specific and exceptional cases after hearing the opinion of the respective Episcopal Conference.

Given at the Seat of the Congregation for the Eastern Churches, 14 June 2014

Leonardo Cardinal Sandri
Prefect


As Charles said in his original message to me: "(An) important thing to note is that for the first time, to my knowledge, the Holy See acknowledges that because of the prior legislation forbidding the ordination of married men in the U.S., 200,000 Eaatern Catholics passed over to Orthodoxy."

Originally Posted by Anthony
I don't understand why this is coming to light now when the Pope issued this decision in June


To Anthony's question as to the delay, many Congregational Acts, other than those of interest/import to audiences larger than we, the redheaded stepchildren, don't see the light of day until publication of the respective edition of the Acta. Additionally, the Pope did not issue this, he assented to the Act of the Congregation.

Originally Posted by grieco catholic
If it's official, then why is there nothing posted on the Vatican website nor on the Vatican News website?


To grieco's point, the same comments apply. Only the Acts of the major Congregations make the Vatican website and the websites of the individual Congregations are woefully untended, as Father Jon's observation suggests. (I'd add to Father Jon's comment that, just because we have technology does not mean that we have to use it biggrin )

As to the piece that Anhelyna quotes

Quote
La terza modalità riguarda infine i territori – è il caso dell’Italia


Quote
The third mode regards, finally, the territories - is the case of Italy


that is Magister's interpretation. Italy has eparchies and an exarchate (exarchial abbey), therefore it has administrative structures - note the following text:

Quote
in the Eastern Administrative Constituencies (Metropolia, Eparchies, Exarchates) constituted outside of the traditional territories, these faculties are conferred on the Eastern Hierarchs, to exercise according to the traditions of their respective Churches.


Magister needs to get out more.

The relevant text, to which Magister refers, reads:

Quote
- in territories in which the Eastern faithful are deprived of a specific administrative structure and are entrusted to the care of the Latin Bishops of the place,


would refer to any place in which there are no Eastern canonical jurisdictions (ex: Philippines) or those in which faithful of a specific Church sui iuris are sine episcopi - without hierarchs of their own Church (ex: Belarusian Greek-Catholics everywhere in the world and Russian Greek-Catholics anywhere in the world, other than those resident in Russia and subject to the Ordinariate).

Finally, before anyone gets in a tizzy about the text

Quote
Also, the Ordinary, possessing faculties to ordain married Eastern candidates from a respective region, [has] an obligation to give prior notice, in writing, to the Latin Bishop of the candidate's place of residence, so as to obtain his opinion and any relevant information [regarding the candidate].


Charles and I are in agreement that this is, in no way, a limitation on the Eastern hierarch. Rather, it is intended to be a means of 'vetting', providing the Eastern hierarch with the benefit of any information that may be known to the Latin ordinary of the candidate's place of residence - a useful consideration.

My thanks again to both Charles and Ryan/Messdiener.

Many years,

Neil (who apologizes for his prolonged absence and promises that he's back :D)
Posted By: aramis

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/16/14 05:37 AM

Wonderful news, thank-you Neil!
Posted By: Garajotsi

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/16/14 04:19 PM

There is a phrase that causes me concern..."
"these faculties are conferred on the Eastern Hierarchs, to exercise according to the traditions of their respective Churches."

Did the Eastern Catholic church not already have that right?

Was it necessary to "confer" it? ....it sounds as though the Church of the East did not have any rights?

Does this mean that these "faculties which are conferred" by Rome can be revoked by Rome?

The news sounds good ....but????


Garaj
Posted By: Economos Roman V. Russo

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/16/14 06:07 PM

By and large, positive, but . . . the devil's in the details!
Posted By: jjp

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/16/14 06:08 PM

Sadly these announcements are necessary, many of the Eastern Catholic leadership will only exercise their ancient and holy traditions if they think it's okay with Rome. Hopefully this is what they've been waiting for and will enbolden them to ordain married priests with less subterfuge (wives will hopefully now be included in their biographies and identified in the pictues of the ordinations). Nothing to hide or apologize for!

I do appreciate the honest historical background included and the subtlty of the "announcement." There should be no need to make a big deal about any of this, as it is more a formalizing of what should already be reality.

The idea that these rights are "conferred" or "conceded" is potentially troubling. These rights exist regardless of any concession or conferral by anyone.
Posted By: Nelson Chase

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/16/14 07:56 PM

Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.


Could someone elaborate more on why the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches are not allowed to ordain married men?
Posted By: bergschlawiner

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/16/14 11:25 PM

The Pope needs to go one step farther and "authorize" married priest in his entire Church!
Posted By: Garajotsi

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 06:13 AM

That will happen when "the shrimp whistles on the mountain"

Garaj
Posted By: Economos Roman V. Russo

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 08:17 AM

They are already looking into authorizing the ordination of married men in Amazonia!
Posted By: Michael_Thoma

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Nelson Chase
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.


Could someone elaborate more on why the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches are not allowed to ordain married men?
In the case of the Syro-Malabar Church, well.. have you heard the joke, 'more Catholic than the Pope'? Time will tell.

In the case of the Syro-Malankara, in modern 'rewritten' history it is said that Mor Ivanios intended a celibate priesthood as head of the monastic groups when he translated to Catholicism from Orthodoxy. And that this decision is binding. However, he did allow married men to be ordained deacons and priests while he was alive.. and married Marthoma clergy are ordained when they convert, and Orthodox priests are received.

My personal opinion is that Mor Ivanios expected the rest of the bishops of the Malankara Orthodox Church to join him. He would remain head of the celibates, and they would continue to do as they did.

When the Code of Canons for the Syro-Malankara Church was passed in 1990, not a mention of married deacons or priests was included. Not sure why.
Posted By: griego catolico

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 10:23 AM

Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.


Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 10:44 AM

Sometmes EC bishops can be more "papal than the pope."

The clergy in those Churches should just go ahead with their plans for ordination and see what happens . . .

Alex
Posted By: Michael_Thoma

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by griego catolico
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.


Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?
Let's hope.. although, I'm not holding my breath..
Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by griego catolico
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.


Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?


No, they have required celibacy as part of their particular law, although the Synod could change it. On the otherhand, even with mandatory celibacy they have a glut of vocations.
Posted By: Curious Joe

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 10:06 PM

article appearing on the Catholic Register website
Posted By: griego catolico

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by griego catolico
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.


Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?


No, they have required celibacy as part of their particular law, although the Synod could change it. On the otherhand, even with mandatory celibacy they have a glut of vocations.


Hmm, this raises some very interesting questions.
Who has the final word then? The Pope or a synod?

It almost appears to be a given that both synods of the Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches will change this. After all, who wants to be viewed as going against what the Pope has now allowed?
Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/17/14 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by griego catolico
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by griego catolico
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.


Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?


No, they have required celibacy as part of their particular law, although the Synod could change it. On the otherhand, even with mandatory celibacy they have a glut of vocations.


Hmm, this raises some very interesting questions.
Who has the final word then? The Pope or a synod?

It almost appears to be a given that both synods of the Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches will change this. After all, who wants to be viewed as going against what the Pope has now allowed?

Why? The Syro-Malabars have more vocations than they can use now, many being loaned to Latin diocese in India and the U.S. They also live in a wider cultural context in which celibacy is traditional and respected. The Syro-Malankars may, but I don't know if there is a push to change this. They do accept married priests from the Orthodox.
Posted By: PPJ

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/18/14 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by Nelson Chase
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.


Could someone elaborate more on why the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches are not allowed to ordain married men?
In the case of the Syro-Malabar Church, well.. have you heard the joke, 'more Catholic than the Pope'? Time will tell.

In the case of the Syro-Malankara, in modern 'rewritten' history it is said that Mor Ivanios intended a celibate priesthood as head of the monastic groups when he translated to Catholicism from Orthodoxy. And that this decision is binding. However, he did allow married men to be ordained deacons and priests while he was alive.. and married Marthoma clergy are ordained when they convert, and Orthodox priests are received.

My personal opinion is that Mor Ivanios expected the rest of the bishops of the Malankara Orthodox Church to join him. He would remain head of the celibates, and they would continue to do as they did.

When the Code of Canons for the Syro-Malankara Church was passed in 1990, not a mention of married deacons or priests was included. Not sure why.


I dont think malankara syrian catholic church is against married priest/deacons or dont have the power to. For past few years it has been trying to reintroduce married permanent deacons. But it was facing challenges as how to accommodate the family of the married deacon, finance etc. Probably once it is successful with married permanent deacon, it may give courage for the church for married priest. This wouldnt have been issue if married priests were already there for long time. Starting afresh again gives lot of challenges especially with small sized church compared to orthodox which is 4-5 times bigger. Money matters!!!

I believe if syro malabar had the will, it could do it much easier considering the size of the church and large wealth it owns. But sadly it wont!.
Posted By: Michael_Thoma

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/18/14 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by PPJ

I dont think malankara syrian catholic church is against married priest/deacons or dont have the power to. For past few years it has been trying to reintroduce married permanent deacons. But it was facing challenges as how to accommodate the family of the married deacon, finance etc. Probably once it is successful with married permanent deacon, it may give courage for the church for married priest.
Why should this be an issue? The Deacon probably has a secular job, as do most wives in these days. Why should finances matter at all?

Quote
This wouldnt have been issue if married priests were already there for long time. Starting afresh again gives lot of challenges especially with small sized church compared to orthodox which is 4-5 times bigger. Money matters!!!
The Malankara Syrian Catholic Church came to Communion with Rome in 1930. We had married clergy for the first generation. We also have married priests now, although few and far between. We had married clergy when Orthodox. So it hasn't been more than a few decades that the celibate priesthood is being promoted to the EXCLUSION of married clergy, in the Malankara Syrian Catholic Church.
Posted By: Fralupo

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/18/14 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Irish Melkite

that is Magister's interpretation. Italy has eparchies and an exarchate (exarchial abbey), therefore it has administrative structures - note the following text:

Quote
in the Eastern Administrative Constituencies (Metropolia, Eparchies, Exarchates) constituted outside of the traditional territories, these faculties are conferred on the Eastern Hierarchs, to exercise according to the traditions of their respective Churches.


Magister needs to get out more.

The relevant text, to which Magister refers, reads:

Quote
- in territories in which the Eastern faithful are deprived of a specific administrative structure and are entrusted to the care of the Latin Bishops of the place,



This is news to me. Are you referring to the Italo-Albanian eparchies that cover small regions of Southern Italy? Or are there Romanian or Ukrainian eparchies covering Italy in the way they cover the US and Canada?
Posted By: PPJ

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/19/14 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by PPJ

I dont think malankara syrian catholic church is against married priest/deacons or dont have the power to. For past few years it has been trying to reintroduce married permanent deacons. But it was facing challenges as how to accommodate the family of the married deacon, finance etc. Probably once it is successful with married permanent deacon, it may give courage for the church for married priest.
Why should this be an issue? The Deacon probably has a secular job, as do most wives in these days. Why should finances matter at all?

Quote
This wouldnt have been issue if married priests were already there for long time. Starting afresh again gives lot of challenges especially with small sized church compared to orthodox which is 4-5 times bigger. Money matters!!!
The Malankara Syrian Catholic Church came to Communion with Rome in 1930. We had married clergy for the first generation. We also have married priests now, although few and far between. We had married clergy when Orthodox. So it hasn't been more than a few decades that the celibate priesthood is being promoted to the EXCLUSION of married clergy, in the Malankara Syrian Catholic Church.


Married deacon discussion came around 2-3 years back. And I happen to read one of the document where it has mentioned that current seminaries are not designed to support students stay with family. And questions where there like will people get encouraged to come to seminaries if they are staying away from family as it is mandatory for the student to stay inside seminary. The salary of married clergy was also in discussion that will it support family with non-working spouse etc. Whatever, church was really serious about admitting married students for becoming permanent deacon. I am not sure what is the status of it now.

Posted By: Michael_Thoma

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/19/14 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by PPJ
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by PPJ

I dont think malankara syrian catholic church is against married priest/deacons or dont have the power to. For past few years it has been trying to reintroduce married permanent deacons. But it was facing challenges as how to accommodate the family of the married deacon, finance etc. Probably once it is successful with married permanent deacon, it may give courage for the church for married priest.
Why should this be an issue? The Deacon probably has a secular job, as do most wives in these days. Why should finances matter at all?

Quote
This wouldnt have been issue if married priests were already there for long time. Starting afresh again gives lot of challenges especially with small sized church compared to orthodox which is 4-5 times bigger. Money matters!!!
The Malankara Syrian Catholic Church came to Communion with Rome in 1930. We had married clergy for the first generation. We also have married priests now, although few and far between. We had married clergy when Orthodox. So it hasn't been more than a few decades that the celibate priesthood is being promoted to the EXCLUSION of married clergy, in the Malankara Syrian Catholic Church.


Married deacon discussion came around 2-3 years back. And I happen to read one of the document where it has mentioned that current seminaries are not designed to support students stay with family. And questions where there like will people get encouraged to come to seminaries if they are staying away from family as it is mandatory for the student to stay inside seminary. The salary of married clergy was also in discussion that will it support family with non-working spouse etc. Whatever, church was really serious about admitting married students for becoming permanent deacon. I am not sure what is the status of it now.

How can this be a serious move toward married deacons? It's not as if this has never happened anywhere and is an innovation? The Orthodox have them, the protestant Marthomas in Kerala have married ministers, even our Eastern Catholic sister Churches all over the world have married deacons and priests with children. Why would it be absolutely mandatory for students to stay away from their family when studying? I'm sure an easy accommodation can be made, and those willing to pursue are willing to sacrifice.

In regard to non-working spouses of married clergy - it could be set that the spouse should be working or at least financially secure. Non-working spouses are probably a minority among modern families.
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/20/14 10:12 AM

Dear Father Deacon Lance,

You put your finger on something very important in the whole discussion of celibacy/marriage for clergy.

You are absolutely correct (and so very astute) in saying that India's religious tradition and culture respects celibacy - a context that supports and values a celibate Christian priesthood.

In the West, for example, the same context is quite different . . .

It was my experience with a Latin Catholic high school that actually scared me away from the priesthood.

When I once said I was considering the priesthood - that was it, I was forever targeted as an "idiot" and a "homosexual" by the Latin students there. What was worse, the lay counselors at the school actually had me attend some sessions with a school psychologist to find out what was wrong with me that I wanted to be a celibate priest etc.!

The psychologist told me that he was in a seminary but let because of the homosexual tendencies of the seminarians and also how they talked about poverty issues without ever knowing what it was like not to sleep in one's own bed for three weeks and the like (I didn't ask him if he ever had that experience himself).

I felt like a pariah and over time they tried to make me believe I was under my parents' sway too much. They then had me speak to a female counselor who "prepped" me for dating - she even told me, and I'll never forget those words, "Alex, you're no Rock Hudson, but you are all right . . . I think a girl would be interested in speaking with you, going with you to a dance . . .".

(FYI, the female counselor was no movie star either - I think that if Moses would have seen her, there would have been another commandment . . .).

So now I was not only feeling strange for considering the priesthood (I always wanted to be a married priest, but the Latins didn't know anything about that and said it wouldn't happen in North America anyway), but I was also feeling that only very specific girls would want to go out with me. (Today, I have twice as many female friends as male and they actually get upset with me if I stay out of touch with them for too long . . . ).

When they got to my parents, my mom and dad asked me, almost with tears in their eyes, "Alex, do we overly control and dominate you?" I told them I wanted to transfer to a public school, right there and then.

My mother even took the initiative to arrange a date for me with the daughter of a friend of hers, just to show the school . . .

I didn't want to go, I didn't know what I would say to the girl, apart from religion, spirituality and philosophy. (I thought, "Maybe she would go for some devotional literature . . .?").

At the last minute, the girl called to say she had a headache and couldn't make it that night. My mother had made reservations for a very expensive restaurant and the taxi was already waiting to take me to the girl's house . . .

Seeing how nervous I was, I was given some whiskey to "soothe my nerves." But when the girl called to say she couldn't make it, I wiped the sweat from my brow and knelt in thankful prayer right in front of my parents . . .

Today, if things were different for me personally, I'd have no problem being a celibate priest.

Our married priests live very hard lives, many of them do manual labour to make ends meet and I wouldn't wish their experiences on my worst enemy.

There, I got that off my chest. Thank your for listening and understanding!

Alex

Posted By: MichaelO

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/20/14 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
The Holy Father, in the audience granted to the Prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, December 23, 2013, approved that request

contrariis quibuslibet minimum ostantibus, (all considerations to the contrary notwithstanding)

according to the following guidelines:

- in the Eastern Administrative Constituencies (Metropolia, Eparchies, Exarchates) constituted outside of the traditional territories, these faculties are conferred on the Eastern Hierarchs, to exercise according to the traditions of their respective Churches. Also, the Ordinary, possessing faculties to ordain married Eastern candidates from a respective region, [has] an obligation to give prior notice, in writing, to the Latin Bishop of the candidate's place of residence, so as to obtain his opinion and any relevant information [regarding the candidate].


Progress. But Greek Catholic bishops still do not have the freedom to ordain married men to the priesthood without the permission of the Latin bishop.

Also, this permission comes not as an undeniable right of Eastern Catholics but as a prerogative of the Holy Father. It can be taken away at any time.
Posted By: Michael_Thoma

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/20/14 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by MichaelO
Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
The Holy Father, in the audience granted to the Prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, December 23, 2013, approved that request

contrariis quibuslibet minimum ostantibus, (all considerations to the contrary notwithstanding)

according to the following guidelines:

- in the Eastern Administrative Constituencies (Metropolia, Eparchies, Exarchates) constituted outside of the traditional territories, these faculties are conferred on the Eastern Hierarchs, to exercise according to the traditions of their respective Churches. Also, the Ordinary, possessing faculties to ordain married Eastern candidates from a respective region, [has] an obligation to give prior notice, in writing, to the Latin Bishop of the candidate's place of residence, so as to obtain his opinion and any relevant information [regarding the candidate].


Progress. But Greek Catholic bishops still do not have the freedom to ordain married men to the priesthood without the permission of the Latin bishop.

Also, this permission comes not as an undeniable right of Eastern Catholics but as a prerogative of the Holy Father. It can be taken away at any time.
How does this work in a place like Winnepeg where the Byzantine bishop is the personal, territorial and jurisdictional Catholic eparch/bishop?
Posted By: griego catolico

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/20/14 12:32 PM

Here is an English translation provided by the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh: link.

Letter from Metropolitan Archbishop William issued to the clergy, religious and faithful of the Archeparchy: link.

Source.
Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/20/14 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelO
Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
The Holy Father, in the audience granted to the Prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, December 23, 2013, approved that request

contrariis quibuslibet minimum ostantibus, (all considerations to the contrary notwithstanding)

according to the following guidelines:

- in the Eastern Administrative Constituencies (Metropolia, Eparchies, Exarchates) constituted outside of the traditional territories, these faculties are conferred on the Eastern Hierarchs, to exercise according to the traditions of their respective Churches. Also, the Ordinary, possessing faculties to ordain married Eastern candidates from a respective region, [has] an obligation to give prior notice, in writing, to the Latin Bishop of the candidate's place of residence, so as to obtain his opinion and any relevant information [regarding the candidate].


Progress. But Greek Catholic bishops still do not have the freedom to ordain married men to the priesthood without the permission of the Latin bishop.

Also, this permission comes not as an undeniable right of Eastern Catholics but as a prerogative of the Holy Father. It can be taken away at any time.

Eastern bishops are to inform the Latin bishops not ask their permission. And I am sure Rome knows this toothpaste is never going back in the tube.
Posted By: Three Cents

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 11/23/14 05:52 AM

Some Points:

It will be interesting to see how the American Roman Catholic clergy respond to this. There are GC clergy with RC faculties and can this extend the married priesthood here?

In Czechoslovakia, RC married clergy were allowed in the Byzantine Rite in certain cases.

Among the Orthodox, there are discrepencies regarding the diaconate. Since the Orientals were not a part of Trullo, they go by the more ancient cannon regarding the marriage of deacons, which they allow. Some Eastern Orthodox use that as a basis for exemptions, but they are infrequent. The RC deacons are covered under the Trullo praxis and are not allowed to marry after ordination. Yet Vatican II calls for recognizing Orthodox clergy as they are. This will be very interesting.

Finally, if the Cardinal Archbishop of NY wanted to ordain married men for his Russian and Italo-Greek Greek Catholic parishes, could His Eminence Timothy Dolan do it? The previous Archbishop of NY stated an interest in at least studying married clergy and used the Eastern Catholic Churches as reasoning. Interesting. BTW, Our Lady of Kazan in Boston was under the jurisdiction of Umberto Cardinal Medeiros.

Whew! There are a lot of issues to sort out with this. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Just my ... Three Cents.

Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 12/04/14 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Three Cents

Finally, if the Cardinal Archbishop of NY wanted to ordain married men for his Russian and Italo-Greek Greek Catholic parishes, could His Eminence Timothy Dolan do it?

Yes, as their ordinary he has the right to do so.
Posted By: mardukm

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 12/06/14 09:24 AM

Please permit me to inject a High Petrine perspective into the discussion.

It is a false notion that it is the Pope of Rome's prerogative to determine this matter, at least not his alone. From the beginning of this controversy in the 19th century, it has never been the Pope of Rome's will alone, nor even primarily, that has determined this matter. The conflict arose because the very great majority of bishops in a certain region opposed a particular discplinary praxis -- "very great majority" because I had read in an article at New Advent a couple of years ago that there was at least one Latin bishop during that early period who allowed married Eastern priests into his diocese [somewhere in the Eastern U.S.]). If the majority of bishops in the region wanted or were OK with married priests, then there would be no problem at all, and the Pope would NOT have the authority to impose celibacy in the region. The role of the Pope of Rome (or any head bishop) is to CONFIRM, not to introduce something novel. However, when there is conflict between bishops, it is a tough reality that not all parties will get their way.

Look at it from the perspective of the ancient Apostolic Canon 34. On a matter that concerns the entire plenary jurisdiction of a head bishop, the approval of the head bishop is a [u]necessity[/i]. BUT NEITHER IS THE MERE AND UNILATERAL WILL OF THE HEAD BISHOP THE SOLE DETERMINANT. Other bishops must be in agreement (in practice, it is the majority), for any act to be ecclesiastically valid.

CAVEAT: remember, this is a matter of discipline, not doctrine. In a matter of discipline, majority rule is the norm. This is not always the case on matters of doctrine. In either case, it is never the will of the head bishop alone that determines the case.

To address the matter of this discipline being taken away in the future, I would only point out that in Catholic canon law, acquired rights are very, very, very difficult to violate or rescind - even by the Pope of Rome. Remember also that this decision reflected the will of some very influential bodies in the Catholic Church (among others, the North American Catholic-Orthodox commission, the Sacred Congregation for the Eastern Churches, etc.). Rest assured, if it could be rescinded, it would only be by a collegial action, not by some mythical, unilateral power of the Pope of Rome. Fr. Dcn Lance put it well - the toothpaste ain't goin' back in the tube on this one.

To address an earlier comment about the right of bishop to ordain married men: It is the natural, divine right of a bishop to ordain men,. However, whether such men can be married or must be celibate is regulated by ecclesiastical law. It is not a natural right to ordain MARRIED men, but it is a natural right to ordain men.

Finally, I'd like to comment on the title of this thread. Having grown up in the Oriental Orthodox communion, and imbued with what I call the High Petrine perspective, a statement such "Pope Francis universally authorizes married priests" to me naturally means that it was a decision of the head bishop (in this case, the Pope of Rome) IN AGREEMENT WITH many other bishops. That's the ONLY way it could have come about. But I imagine that there are those (perhaps many) who would interpret that statement to mean that the Pope of Rome single-handedly did it. I believe the latter perspective is not only false, but it is such perceptions that perpetuate the falsehood of the Absolutist Petrine view, so destructive to Church unity.

Blessings,
Marduk
Posted By: Ivanov325

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 12/06/14 02:03 PM

Thank you, mardukm, for your response. There is a balance in what you say/provide that is very helpful.

The Absolutist Petrine view, imho, creates many more problems than it 'solves'. I'm sure this point has been labored elswhere in the Forums, but do the canons and Councils of the western Church (those which are germane) establish, without ambiguity, an Absolutist intent. If not, what has emanated in letter or canon from Rome reiterating a non-absolutist understanding of the Petrine primacy so as to quell the ill effects of those who both misunderstand and propagate the Absolutist 'semi-dogma'.

To provide my context, after leaving 35 yrs. of protestantism, I became RC... after nearly 25 years there I converted to/was converted by Orthodoxy and now worship and pray with my brothers in the Greek-Catholic church (Melkite), having also worshiped and prayed with Eastern Orthodox of various jurisdictions in the not too distant past as well. (Please note, this 'context' is to be understood in linear-chronological fashion, not in a 'musical chairs' construct :>) LOL, sorta

Any helpful elucidations to this much overworked (due to its wasp-like insertiveness) topic would be greatly appreciated.

Sinful Ivanov.
Posted By: The young fogey

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 12/06/14 07:53 PM

Great news.
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 12/08/14 03:47 PM

Great to see you here, YF!

Alex
Posted By: mardukm

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 12/12/14 07:38 PM

Dear brother Ivanov,

I have provided such information as you asked for in other threads over the years. When I have more time, I will address your concerns by reviving one of the relatively recent threads discussing the High Petrine view of the Catholic Church (I don't think thread is the place to discuss it).

In the meantime, you might want to do a search on the topic "High Petrine" in this website, or in the Catholic Answers website. Hopefully, it will be helpful, perhaps even an eye-opener. I've spent a lot of time detailing the differences between the popular conceptions about the papacy versus the actual teaching of the Catholic Church on the papacy.

Blessings

Originally Posted by Ivanov325
Thank you, mardukm, for your response. There is a balance in what you say/provide that is very helpful.

The Absolutist Petrine view, imho, creates many more problems than it 'solves'. I'm sure this point has been labored elswhere in the Forums, but do the canons and Councils of the western Church (those which are germane) establish, without ambiguity, an Absolutist intent. If not, what has emanated in letter or canon from Rome reiterating a non-absolutist understanding of the Petrine primacy so as to quell the ill effects of those who both misunderstand and propagate the Absolutist 'semi-dogma'.

To provide my context, after leaving 35 yrs. of protestantism, I became RC... after nearly 25 years there I converted to/was converted by Orthodoxy and now worship and pray with my brothers in the Greek-Catholic church (Melkite), having also worshiped and prayed with Eastern Orthodox of various jurisdictions in the not too distant past as well. (Please note, this 'context' is to be understood in linear-chronological fashion, not in a 'musical chairs' construct :>) LOL, sorta

Any helpful elucidations to this much overworked (due to its wasp-like insertiveness) topic would be greatly appreciated.

Sinful Ivanov.
Posted By: Tomassus

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 01/08/15 10:38 AM

Eastern-Catholic Married Priesthood Authorized in North America

At Pope Francis’ direction, the Vatican has restored a faculty it suppressed 85 years ago.

by PETER JESSERER SMITH 01/07/2015

WASHINGTON — Eastern Catholic bishops in the U.S. and Canada can once more ordain married men to the priesthood, now that the Vatican has removed decades-long prohibitions that had prevented them from following the traditional practice of their patriarchal churches.

The decree — signed by Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, the prefect of the Congregation for Oriental Churches — was dated June 14, 2014, in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis. It was published online in November and announced that Pope Francis restored the faculty of Eastern-Catholic bishops “outside of the traditional Eastern territories” to admit married men to the priesthood “according to the traditions of their respective Churches.”

According to the decree, Eastern-Catholic bishops all over the world may “ordain the Eastern married candidates who come from their jurisdiction.” It adds they have the “obligation to inform beforehand” the local Latin-rite bishop in writing “in order to have his opinion regarding any useful information.”

The decree adds that ordinaries overseeing Eastern-Catholic ordinariates that lack their own hierarch can ordain married men to the priesthood, “providing they notify the bishops' conference of the specific cases in that area.”

The Congregation for Oriental Churches, however, reserves for itself the decision to ordain a married man in cases where Eastern-Catholic faithful are entrusted to the care of a Latin bishop or a bishops’ conference.

“It’s a very good move for us,” said Bishop Nicholas Samra, the Melkite eparch of Newton, Mass., in welcoming the decision. “We’ve been arguing and discussing this for quite a while.” Bishop Samra was among the more vocal advocates in the U.S. calling for a restoration of the faculties of Eastern-Catholic bishops outside of their patriarchal territories to ordain married men.

The Vatican decision affects the 15 eparchies and two archeparchies of the various Eastern-Catholic Churches in the U.S. and appears to bring the Church’s practice into line with the Second Vatican Council’s teaching that “each individual Church or rite should retain its traditions whole and entire,” adapting to the “different needs of time and place.”

The ability of Eastern-Catholic married clergy to serve in the U.S., Canada and Australia had been suppressed for more than 85 years, since a 1929 Vatican decree called Cum Datum Fuerit.

The 2014 decree signed by Cardinal Sandri related the history of the Eastern-Catholic married priesthood’s suppression, saying it had been granted at the behest of the Latin bishops in North America, who at that time believed Eastern married clergy posed a “grave scandal” to their faithful. The Vatican acknowledged that. in North America, as a result of this treatment, “an estimated 200,000 Ruthenian [Eastern-Catholic] faithful became Orthodox.”



Positive Ecumenical Signals

Pope Francis’ restoration of Eastern bishops’ faculty to ordain married men outside of their patriarchates has sent positive signals to the Orthodox, where the vast majority of diocesan clergy are married men.

“For the Catholics to show that there isn’t anything wrong with the married clergy is a very good thing — that there isn’t a ‘second tier’ or ‘sub-priesthood,’ so to speak, just because one is married,” said Father Nathaniel Symeonides, ‎director of Inter-Orthodox, Ecumenical, Interfaith and Church-World Relations at the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.

He said this would help the dialogue move forward and added that the way the Church resolved the issue internally was encouraging.

“It does show an openness, absolutely, for changing a policy without the fear of changing doctrine or the teachings of the Church,” he said.

Paulist Father Ronald Roberson, associate director for the Secretariat of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said resolving the issue was necessary to assure the Orthodox that the Catholic Church would respect their traditions in the event of a reconciliation between them.

“It would be a problem if, in the final stages of a theological dialogue with the Orthodox — and we were talking about the arrangements that would be made — [we were] to say, ‘Oh, by the way, you can’t have married priests in North America,’” he said.

Father Roberson said the decision is about respecting traditions and not changing celibacy as the norm for priests in the Latin rite.

“It has been clear from the beginning that celibacy is a treasured tradition of the Latin rite, and that is the standard thing, and there can be exceptions,” he said, pointing out that the majority of married priests in the U.S. are Latin rite, such as those serving in the Anglican ordinariates established by Benedict XVI.

“This simply recognizes that the Eastern-Catholic Churches that are in communion with us have a different tradition, and the tradition of married priests and celibate priests live side-by-side with respect for one another.”

Most Eastern-Catholic Churches have a tradition of both a married and celibate priesthood, except the Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara Churches, which have had priestly celibacy as their norm for quite some time. Traditionally, in the Eastern-Catholic Churches celibate priests would live together as monastics, while married men would serve as diocesan clergy. Only celibate priests may be consecrated bishops.

But in all the Churches of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, once ordained, a priest cannot get married. A married priest must observe celibacy after the death of his wife.



Reviving Eastern Monasticism

In North America, most of the serving Eastern-Catholic diocesan clergy are celibate. Restoring the married priesthood could also help Eastern Churches restore their own tradition of living out celibate priesthood, in the form of monasticism, in North America.

“Monasticism and marriage are interwoven in Eastern spirituality,” said Father Thomas Loya, pastor of Annunciation of the Mother of God Byzantine Catholic Church in the Chicago area and host of Light of the East Radio.

“This [decree] is about returning to an authentic experience of our spirituality,” he said, noting that, traditionally, in the Eastern Churches, most vocations to the celibate priesthood (as well as married priesthood) came from priests’ families.

While this restoration, he said, would help the bishops ordain a “more wholesome, more rounded individual” to the priesthood, many big questions have to now be constructively addressed, including what to do about rectories designed for celibates, not families; how to support financially the priest’s family; and how to allocate parish assignments between celibates and married priests.

Another aspect is forming the priest’s wife for her role in the parish. Father Loya said that while the Latin Church has developed a staff structure to support celibate parish priests in their ministry — from cooks, housekeepers, directors of religious education, etc. — in the Eastern Churches, many of these functions used to be filled by the priest’s wife and his family.

“There’s a lot more to it than this is a priest who happens to be married,” he said, explaining that the attitude cannot be that a priest’s wife is “a career woman who happens to be married to a priest. They’ll be expected to share in that life itself.”



Slow Restoration Begins

Bishop Samra said these questions are now being carefully examined by Eastern-Catholic bishops in North America.

“Each bishop is working on guidelines,” he said.

In his eparchy, he is looking for candidates with theology degrees who demonstrate a pastoral character. But he’s also looking at middle-aged men who have demonstrated they can care for their families.

“We’re looking at probably the age of 40” [for candidates], he said, pointing out that many parishes are not financially equipped to support married priests and their families. Right now, the candidates he’s looking for have to maintain a job to support their families and provide them insurance while the eparchy develops the resources to better support them.

“We’re also trying to do some [theological] programming for the priests’ wives,” he said. “They have to have a major role, and they have to consent.”

Bishop Samra said his own eparchy may see up to 10 more married priests over the next seven years. The increase will not solve his priest shortage, but he expects it will ease the strain. At least eight of his parishes are without a full-time pastor, and he has to staff two outreaches, in Houston and in Allentown, Pa., where Middle-Eastern Christians escaping violence have resettled.

“A lot of these people who are coming are very accustomed with married priests, and they feel comfortable with them. They know he’s experienced the same life as them, with families and children.”

Peter Jesserer Smith is the Register’s Washington correspondent.


Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...thorized-in-north-america/#ixzz3OFEce49l
Posted By: Mark7

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 07/08/15 03:37 PM

Thanks to the three of you for this invaluable Translation of the announcement by Pope Francis to lift the ban on Eastern married priests in the Diaspora (outside of their traditional territory)!

The Acta Apostolica Sedis Vol CVI No 6 496-499, June 14, 2014
issue published the decree signed by Leonardo Cardinal Sandri, Prefect of the Congregation of the Eastern Churches.

Have published this on our website and given vatican.va and byzcath.org credit.
http://maryourmother.net/Eastern.html
Posted By: theophan

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 07/15/15 05:58 PM

Quote
Paulist Father Ronald Roberson, associate director for the Secretariat of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said resolving the issue was necessary to assure the Orthodox that the Catholic Church would respect their traditions in the event of a reconciliation between them.

“It would be a problem if, in the final stages of a theological dialogue with the Orthodox — and we were talking about the arrangements that would be made — [we were] to say, ‘Oh, by the way, you can’t have married priests in North America,’” he said.

Father Roberson said the decision is about respecting traditions and not changing celibacy as the norm for priests in the Latin rite.


" . . . assure the Orthodox that the Catholic Church would respect their traditions . . ."

Forgive me, but this seems to make the assumption that everyone is becoming another Eastern Catholic Church. Is this man serious? It seems to me he needs a lot of education about what the other Apostolic Churches are all about, how they see themselves, and what they see an eventual reconciliation to be.

"[we were] to say, ‘Oh, by the way, you can’t have married priests in North America,’” he said."

I wonder what his reaction would be if the Orthodox would say "You're coming back into a communion you broke a millenium ago and you have the gall to think you can make any conditions on the Church you want to be reconciled to."

"rite"

This priest is part of the ecumenical area of the USCCB but he hasn't yet received the memo that we speak about "sui juris Churches" and "Sister Churches," not "rites"--as if theology is always Latin and everyone else just has a different way of expressing it.

Boy, have we got a looooong way to go.

Bob
Posted By: Michael_Thoma

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 07/15/15 06:13 PM

Even funnier, Fr. Roberson is heavily knowledgeable about the East. He wrote that Eastern Churches survey, now in its 7th or 8th Edition. He's also involved with CNEWA. If he's not accurate, others are on another planet.
Posted By: theophan

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 07/15/15 06:35 PM

Michael_Thoma

I was trying to find the thread about ordaining married men that appeared in the past few months where I posted about what a reconciled Church would look like from an Orthodox point of view, specifically how the Orthodox would related to the Bishop of Rome. Wish I had bookmarked it.

One of the things, if memory serves, is that no Eastern bishop would have any direct connection with the Bishop of Rome. Another was that the Oriental Congregation would have no direct contact with any Eastern bishop and if the Bishop of Rome wanted to contact any Eastern bishop he would direct that contact through the bishop's Patriarch or Synod.

Found it #403750:

Quote
First of all, IMHO the Orthodox Churches need to address this issue on some high level. All these ecumenical dialogues that touch issues of primacy are all theoretical until concrete cases such as the married priesthood are addressed. If I were in a position to address this with a high-level Roman delegation this is what I would tell them:

1. In the event of full communion, there will be no Eastern bishop who will report to the Roman patriarchate for any reason whatsoever. If Rome has something to say to a specific bishop, it can be addressed to the relevant patriarch in whose synod that bishop is a member. In ordinary matters, that will not happen.
2. There will be no issue whatsoever of any Eastern bishop having to answer to anyone but his own synod over who he accepts for priestly formation nor who he ordains. The Eastern Churches are fully capable of making their own decisions in these areas based on their own canons and traditions.
3. In the event of full communion, there will be no issue with any man transfering to another bishop if he feels called to Holy Orders and the decision to accept or reject him will be entirely up to the bishop he approaches without any appeal or interference from Rome. so if a Latin man is rejected because he is married and an Eastern bishop feels he has what it takes and accepts him, there will be no comment from his former Latin bishop or from Rome.
4. In the event of full communion, the Oriental Congregation that has been the Roman Patriarch's medium of dealing with Eastern Churches in full communion up to that time will be abolished. The Pope can feel free to send a delegation to another patriarch to discuss any concerns he may have, but there will be no jurisdictional authority to interfere in the internal workings of another patriarchate unless based on the ancient canons wherein Rome is a last resort for certain limited matters. If Rome wants some sort of regular contact with other patriarchs, an ad hoc committee can be set up, but with no authority other than that granted by the patriarchs involved.
5. In the event Rome does not like these concrete statements of how life in renewed communion will be, then it will be Rome's fault that full communion cannot be achieved.


Bob
Posted By: Peter J

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 07/15/15 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by theophan
" . . . assure the Orthodox that the Catholic Church would respect their traditions . . ."

Forgive me, but this seems to make the assumption that everyone is becoming another Eastern Catholic Church. Is this man serious? It seems to me he needs a lot of education about what the other Apostolic Churches are all about, how they see themselves, and what they see an eventual reconciliation to be.

"[we were] to say, ‘Oh, by the way, you can’t have married priests in North America,’” he said."

I wonder what his reaction would be if the Orthodox would say "You're coming back into a communion you broke a millenium ago and you have the gall to think you can make any conditions on the Church you want to be reconciled to."

In defense of Fr Ron, I have heard some Orthodox say almost exactly what he said.
Posted By: theophan

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 07/16/15 09:09 AM

Quote
In defense of Fr Ron, I have heard some Orthodox say almost exactly what he said.


Could you clarify? When I was instructed in the Orthodox Faith, I was told that a reconciliation would take a unanimous agreement of every canonical diocesan bishop. "Some Orthodox" wouldn't cut it from what my instructors had said.

I don't think there are Orthodox out there who would even dream of entering communion if it looked like what the Eastern Catholic Churches live today.

I think the link to the reply to the Chaldean patriarch by a bishop of the Church of the East could easily have been written by any Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox bishop and well states the approach of the Eastern Churches of Apostolic origin.

Bob

Posted By: Peter J

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 07/16/15 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by theophan
Quote
In defense of Fr Ron, I have heard some Orthodox say almost exactly what he said.

Could you clarify?

I'm not sure. As I say, I've heard some Orthodox say almost exactly what you quoted from Fr. Roberson; but I don't think I could claim to know their overall mindset.

Quote
When I was instructed in the Orthodox Faith, I was told that a reconciliation would take a unanimous agreement of every canonical diocesan bishop. "Some Orthodox" wouldn't cut it from what my instructors had said.

I don't think there are Orthodox out there who would even dream of entering communion if it looked like what the Eastern Catholic Churches live today.

I think the link to the reply to the Chaldean patriarch by a bishop of the Church of the East could easily have been written by any Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox bishop and well states the approach of the Eastern Churches of Apostolic origin.

Bob

Yes, I found that to be a good read (and have recommended it to others).
Posted By: Yuhannon

Re: Pope Francis universally authorizes married Eastern priests - 08/09/15 02:07 AM

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
The one part of this discussion that nobody else has asked or pointed out is why is this Pope more open to the idea of permitting married men to become Eastern Catholic priests; well here is a little FYI for you my brothers and sisters- the Arch-Bishop of Buenos Aires is also the eparch for ALL Eastern Catholics that do not have their own hierarchs throughout Argentina. In 2014 that was over 110,000 in 1998, 14,000 in 2000 and 2,000 since 2010 according to the Annuario Pontifico.

Therefore, this Holy Father has a closer working relationship with Eastern Catholicism than any modern Pontiff.

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon
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