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Lent and Pope Francis

Posted By: theophan

Lent and Pope Francis - 02/10/19 12:53 AM

"Pope Francis has been offered $1 million to give to the charity of his choice if he goes vegan for Lent.

Million Dollar Vegan, the non-profit campaign behind the offer, says it wants the Pope to try a plant-based diet to "help fight climate change with diet change.”"

Christ is in our midst!!

I found this online in a dated article and thought it might not be a bad idea/

in the comments, I suggested that His Holiness contact some of the Orthodox patriarchs for suggestions and their fasting rules. It seems to me to it does a number of good things: $1 million dollars for a charity; getting better acquainted with his brethren in the Eastern Churches; a learning experience--seeing the world through the eyes of another.

So, brothers and sisters, what will His Holiness have to eliminate? I understand meat, fish with backbones, dairy, wine, and oil. What am I missing?

Bob
Posted By: eamon

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/11/19 04:31 PM

It is a lovely idea.
Posted By: theophan

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/11/19 09:29 PM

Might not hurt some of the rest of us Latin Catholics. We're down to two fasting days a year--Ash Wednesday an Good (Great) Friday. What makes me weary is the Catholics who look at me as if I had two heads when I bring this up in conversation. Most people who do this don't understand what it is to fast and what foods we are not to take.
Posted By: Krysostomos

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/16/19 02:25 PM

Isn't Every friday a fasting Day?!?
Posted By: theophan

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/16/19 10:06 PM

Not for Latin Catholics in the United States for many years.
Posted By: choralgeek

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/23/19 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Krysostomos
Isn't Every friday a fasting Day?!?


It's supposed to be, or you can do an "equivalent penance", i.e. a Rosary or Divine Mercy Chaplet instead. But my experience is that a lot of Latin Catholics aren't aware that they're still bound to the Friday no-meat. It's why I'm grateful that my (Eastern) priest puts a no-meat Friday reminder in the bulletin (and also reminders for meat Fridays), because to be quite honest, I forget sometimes.
Posted By: theophan

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/24/19 11:34 PM

choralgeek:

Christ is in our midst!!

Welcome to the forum.

I think the confusion is that shortly after Vatican 2 it was announced that the Friday fast was abolished. Most people didn't hear anything more and many priests didn't mention the positive penance suggestion. Years later the Latin bishops of the United States suggested that we do a penance on Friday, whether meat abstinence or positive penance, but the word was not widely published. That's why, when I taught it to my 7th grade religious ed class 22 years ago, I was challenged by parents who told me "we don't have to do that anymore." And this latter attitude has sunk deeply into lay practice.
Posted By: DocT

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/25/19 03:03 PM

The way I was taught, there are 3 main ways to grow spiritually: fasting, prayer and almsgiving.

Three ways, not one. Three.

How the Latin church conflates the three things is a mystery to me. Fasting is not prayer, prayer is not almsgiving, etc.

I am thankful that in our parish we are slowly returning to the Wednesday/Friday fasting throughout the year and are encouraged to actually fast during the entire duration of Lent, not just a couple days.

If Pope Francis is right, and the abuse scandal is linked to demonic activity, then it would do the Latin church well if they fasted and prayed.....as that's how the really bad demons are overcome. Saying the Rosary is NOT equivalent to fasting! Visiting someone in the hospital before or after eating a steak dinner on Friday is NOT fasting!

What's wrong with people? The Orthodox are quite clear on these matters. We should emulate them, not the Latin Church.
Posted By: theophan

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/25/19 06:37 PM

DocT:

Christ is in our midst!!

Quote
there are 3 main ways to grow spiritually: fasting, prayer and almsgiving


You're absolutely right. An interesting intersection is made with the four ways we come into communion with Christ, Our Lord: Eucharist, Bible reading, Prayer, Almsgiving (a/k/a Random Acts of Kindness, which we do not expect to be repaid for).

My study group will be taking up both these and studying the way in which coming into union with the Lord--ongoing relationship growth--is directly related to our ongoing conversion of life--metanoia, It seems obvious to me that building a relationship with the Lord requires--demands?--that we are in a constant process of self-examination and conversion of life.

Bob
Posted By: Thomas the Seeker

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/26/19 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Krysostomos
Isn't Every friday a fasting Day?!?


For Orthodox Christians almost every Friday (and Wednesday) is a Fasting Day.

Exceptions:

1) The first week of the Triodion (days before the Sunday of the Prodigal Son)

2) Renewal ("Bright" ) Week †

3) The week following Pentecost

4) December 25 - January 4

† In the Antiochian Archdiocese those who have kept a stirict Fast during Great Lent are excused from Fasting until the Friday after Ascension Day.
Posted By: Krysostomos

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/26/19 05:38 PM

In latin Church only The monastic people follow The Habit, that Every wednesday and friday is fasting Day - I think😐. But everybody should...
Posted By: Utroque

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 02/28/19 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by DocT
The way I was taught, there are 3 main ways to grow spiritually: fasting, prayer and almsgiving.

Three ways, not one. Three.

How the Latin church conflates the three things is a mystery to me.


I do not think the Latin (western) Church conflates these three things at all. The only way to grow spiritually is to be rooted in Christ. That takes, first of all Faith. From that we will grow in a Love that will sustain our Hope. Prayer, fasting and almsgiving are mere manifestations of that rootedness, not the source of it. If they are not the result of that we may grow as champions of all three, but not of Christ. I do not care how profound, sublime or beautiful the liturgical expression (Eastern or Western), if it is not rooted in Christ it is, as they say now, what it is.
Posted By: Santiago Tarsicio

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 03/16/19 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by DocT
The way I was taught, there are 3 main ways to grow spiritually: fasting, prayer and almsgiving.

Three ways, not one. Three.

How the Latin church conflates the three things is a mystery to me. Fasting is not prayer, prayer is not almsgiving, etc.

I am thankful that in our parish we are slowly returning to the Wednesday/Friday fasting throughout the year and are encouraged to actually fast during the entire duration of Lent, not just a couple days.

If Pope Francis is right, and the abuse scandal is linked to demonic activity, then it would do the Latin church well if they fasted and prayed.....as that's how the really bad demons are overcome. Saying the Rosary is NOT equivalent to fasting! Visiting someone in the hospital before or after eating a steak dinner on Friday is NOT fasting!

What's wrong with people? The Orthodox are quite clear on these matters. We should emulate them, not the Latin Church.


In penitential days, the Catholic Church distinguishes between fasting and abstinence as forms of penance.

The abstinence of some prescribed food can be replaced in some countries by some work of charity or piety. Fasting does not.
Posted By: Santiago Tarsicio

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 03/16/19 10:41 PM

Abstinence: basically refrain from meat.
Fasting: Basically, reduce the food eaten during the day, make one meal a day.

Fasting can not be replaced by an act of piety or charity.
Posted By: Santiago Tarsicio

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 03/17/19 12:40 AM

PS: on the topic, I think that Pope Francisco should not accept the challenge. Actions speak louder than words. The gesture could be interpreted by many as an acceptance of an anthropology, cosmology, ethics, etc., erroneous and incompatible with Catholicism.
Posted By: theophan

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 03/17/19 06:29 PM

Santiago Tarsicio:

Christ is in our midst!!

May I direct your reading to our Town Hall section where you will find a thread that explains "Who We Are." This is a forum where we discuss the Christian East. And may I suggest that when you mention "Catholicism" in the ways you have done in your previous posts, you refer to "Latin Catholicism" so you are specific about what you are referring to. There are many Catholics of the Eastern Catholic Churches here and their points of reference are akin to those of our brethren who are of the Byzantine and Oriental traditions not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. There is no unanimous agreement that the word "catholic" mentioned in the Nicene Creed specifically and exclusively refers to the Bishop of Rome and those in Communion with him.

The suggestion that Pope Francis accept a fasting challenge and that you just thought is "erroneous and incompatible with Catholicism" was not meant to be a theological statement. It was just someone's thought backed by money. His Holiness probably never even heard of it, as with so many things out there on the Internet.

Your definitions of fast and abstinence are also strictly Latin Catholic. In my experience when those of the Christian East refer to fasting, they mean FROM foods as well as from VOLUME OF foods.

Bob
Moderator
Posted By: Santiago Tarsicio

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 03/17/19 09:46 PM

theophan,
Praised be our Lord Jesus Christ

Originally Posted by theophan
Santiago Tarsicio:

Christ is in our midst!!

May I direct your reading to our Town Hall section where you will find a thread that explains "Who We Are." This is a forum where we discuss the Christian East. And may I suggest that when you mention "Catholicism" in the ways you have done in your previous posts, you refer to "Latin Catholicism" so you are specific about what you are referring to. There are many Catholics of the Eastern Catholic Churches here and their points of reference are akin to those of our brethren who are of the Byzantine and Oriental traditions not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. There is no unanimous agreement that the word "catholic" mentioned in the Nicene Creed specifically and exclusively refers to the Bishop of Rome and those in Communion with him.


Normally when I say "Catholic", "Catholicism" or "Catholic Church" I do not confine myself to the Latin Church, I use it in the sense of being in communion with Rome. Is it possible to separate members from the same divine body?
Unless, of course, the context allows to specify whether the Catholic in question is of the Latin Rite or of some Oriental rite. Given the context, my answer refers to Catholics in Latin rite. In my country Catholics of Latin rite are allowed to substitute for abstinence, usually replaced by Mass.


Originally Posted by theophan

Your definitions of fast and abstinence are also strictly Latin Catholic. In my experience when those of the Christian East refer to fasting, they mean FROM foods as well as from VOLUME OF foods.

Bob
Moderator


I'm not sure of that. I do not know if it is correct to say that they are distinctions valid only for Catholics of the Latin rite, because I also see among Eastern Catholics. For example:

http://www.stsophiaukrainian.cc/resources/fastingandabstainingfaq/

http://www.archpitt.org/regulations-for-the-season-of-the-great-fast-2016/
Posted By: Santiago Tarsicio

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 03/17/19 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by theophan

The suggestion that Pope Francis accept a fasting challenge and that you just thought is "erroneous and incompatible with Catholicism" was not meant to be a theological statement. It was just someone's thought backed by money. His Holiness probably never even heard of it, as with so many things out there on the Internet.


Bob
Moderator


https://www.milliondollarvegan.com/faqs/

Challengers do not seem to be concerned about abortion and other essential and urgent issues. I believe that there is no need to investigate further to conclude that the "worldview" of these people is not compatible with the Fathers, with Laudato Si, etc. The point is: if I were the Pope, I would not take the challenge, lol.

But the Pope gave feedback, but only said that he would pray for the child: https://www.milliondollarvegan.com/pope-francis-responds-to-12-year-old-activist/
Posted By: Santiago Tarsicio

Re: Lent and Pope Francis - 03/18/19 01:59 AM

"Fasting is depriving the body of food from midnight till noon. For the Christian the hunger that results is a real call to be mindful of our thirst for God. It is a call to identify with the poor, whom God loves especially."

"Abstinence refers to the practice of foregoing all foods that come from animals (meats, poultry, dairy products, eggs).
From the creation of our Parents in Paradise to the time after the great flood, people ate only fruits, grains and vegetables. This is the food of paradise! The practice of abstinence reminds us of our high calling to manage all creation in the Name of the Lord."

https://melkite.org/faith/faith-worship/holy-week-traditions#FastAbstinence

Nice. But I'm not a Melkite, is that so?
PS: By the way, the Melkite source distinguished between fasting and abstinence.
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