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Posted By: lcanthony Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/11/13 04:56 PM
Ss. Peter & Paul has recently implemented rosary before Sunday Divine Liturgy. I don't know how I should feel about this. On one hand a good prayer is just that, good prayer. And I wouldn't argue that the rosary is certainly good prayer. On the other hand is the whole "it's not our thing" argument. There seems to be plenty of our own prayers that could be used before the start of D.L. What is the general attitude out there?
Posted By: Slavophile Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/11/13 05:45 PM
I find that distressing. It is in clear contravention of Rome's own instructions, and however well-intentioned, hardly any different to the disobedient practices associated with countless Novus Ordo parishes.

What could the rationale be? Has someone agitated for it? It would be one thing if was an old practice that had not yet been pastorally expunged, but to introduce it now? Someone has not been doing the reading they should!
Posted By: StuartK Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/11/13 06:52 PM
You should ask the priest why, if you are going to have a service before the Divine Liturgy, you can't celebrate Orthros, as the Liturgical Instruction directs.
Posted By: babochka Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/11/13 07:37 PM
I find it very strange that it has been recently implemented. I would understand more if it has been a long standing practice of the parish that has been hard to shake. It is kind of like a parish deciding to institute a "First Solemn Communion" ceremony for 2nd graders, decades after infant communion had been reestablished.
Posted By: Nelson Chase Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/12/13 04:06 AM
It has got to go! As a personal, private prayer I don't believe praying the rosary is necessarily a bad thing for an Eastern Catholic or Orthodox Christian, with guidance from ones spiritual father.

Before a Divine Liturgy to pray a Latin devotional is foreign to our Byzantine Catholic Churches Traditions. Introducing it now just seems like old fashioned Uniatism to me. (sorry to use the U-word.) To me it is like saying "See we are Catholic too."

Matins should be prayed before the Divine Liturgy. I believe Rome would not want Eastern Catholic Churches implementing the rosary into their public liturgical life. All I have read from Rome speaks to us being liturgically the same as the Orthodox mother Churches.
Posted By: 8IronBob Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/12/13 11:39 AM
Exactly. Even in private, personal prayer, I just open up the green book that I have to Pg. 104 (Great Vespers), then I pray through all the verses, the Propers (Tropar, Kontak, Prokeimon, Alleluia, etc...) for that day, and either that night's propers afterwards, or if it's a feast day, I'll pray the propers from that specific feast day.
Posted By: lcanthony Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/12/13 02:16 PM
It's funny you mention the solemn communion thing. we did the solemn communion last week here at Ss. Peter & Paul.
Posted By: bergschlawiner Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/12/13 06:52 PM
Seemed to be a common practice in all the Greek catholic churches in Slovakia, however with no clergy visible and mostly only older women reciting in Old Slavonic. I was surprised to see the same practice here in the U.S. in certain BC parishes.
If it is not practicable to re-introduce Utrenya (Orthros) immediately, at least introduce one or another of the Hours, depending on the time the Divine Liturgy is scheduled. At Saint Michael's we preface our Holy Liturgy with the Third and Sixth Hours; during Lent the Ninth Hour precedes the Presanctified.
Posted By: Slavophile Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/12/13 11:38 PM
Just a few thoughts on this question, written as I sat in Edinburgh airport, having served Liturgy, then enjoyed lunch with two members of this forum:

http://priestofthechurch.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/true-to-tradition/
Posted By: StuartK Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/13/13 02:43 AM
Quote
It's funny you mention the solemn communion thing. we did the solemn communion last week here at Ss. Peter & Paul.


Bishop Nicholas sent out an Encyclical to all his parishes, instructing that the practice would end forthwith, along with the communal celebration of "first confession" and any other circumlocutions being used to continue the rituals associated with attaining the "age of reason"
Posted By: Paul B Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/13/13 02:38 PM
Ideally the Hours or Matins should precede a Sunday Divine Liturgy.

Practically, every person, including children ages 9 and older should know the Lord's Prayer and Angelic Salutation. Have you polled your parish teenagers or asked them to recite the Angelic Salutation? Chances are they don't know it, neither the Eastern NOR Western versions. Do they even know there are two versions?

Here is a scenario where I think the pre-liturgy Rosary is acceptable:
The priest is in transit from an earlier Divine Liturgy at one of his other parishes
AND no layperson can lead the Hours or Matins
OR It is a mission parish hosted by a Roman Catholic parish and there is a time constraint

So, how many here can recite the eastern version of the Angelic Salutation?
Posted By: Nelson Chase Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/13/13 04:58 PM
Quote
The priest is in transit from an earlier Divine Liturgy at one of his other parishes
AND no layperson can lead the Hours or Matins


Respectfully,I don't think the Rosary is acceptable in this situation either. A cantor (or reader or any layperson) can be easily trained to read the third or sixth hour.

Posted By: Paul B Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/13/13 02:42 PM
Nelson, I agree; the Hours are easy. Unfortunately some cantors don't arrive 20 minutes early. May I add that as long as a pastor has a cantor he isn't concerned about developing new readers.

Unfortunately, apathy is very prevalent, both among the clergy and the laypeople. Perhaps our ORE should consider a few reader lessons in the High School program.

We are failing imparting our Divine Praises traditions and the only interest seems to come from a few individuals. But banning the public praying of the Rosary without the addition of another devotion is not the right answer (note: no one has endorsed this, but I think some people think it is justified.)

Posted By: StuartK Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/13/13 04:40 PM
My daughter regularly chants the Epistle at the OCA mission she attends in Chicago. She does so in impeccable Ruthenian style, too. The talent is there--nobody asks.
Posted By: Irish Melkite Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/14/13 03:42 AM
Originally Posted by Slavophile
Just a few thoughts on this question, written as I sat in Edinburgh airport, having served Liturgy, then enjoyed lunch with two members of this forum:

http://priestofthechurch.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/true-to-tradition/


Bless, Father James,

Very well put!

Many years,

Neil
Posted By: Diak Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/14/13 09:49 AM
Quote
Respectfully,I don't think the Rosary is acceptable in this situation either. A cantor (or reader or any layperson) can be easily trained to read the third or sixth hour


I agree. For the UGCC our Anthology has instructions for chanting the Little Hours recto tono with instructions including how to find the troparion and kontakion for each hour, variations if a priest is not present or predisposed, (Proskomidia, confessions, etc.) etc.
Posted By: Slavophile Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/14/13 03:16 PM
Thank you, Neil. I am humbled by the number of people to have read and linked to that post.
Posted By: Lawrence Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/14/13 05:10 PM

At my church, we do not have a group saying the rosary before the liturgy, but I do see individuals praying it by themselves.
Posted By: Diak Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/14/13 05:23 PM
Indeed, very well done, Fr. James.
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Rosary before Divine Liturgy - 05/20/13 06:07 PM
In Orthodoxy, the Rule of prayer of the Most Holy Mother of God (aka the Rosary) is a private form of prayer that is never said in Church as liturgical prayers are.

At the Diveyevo Monastery in Russia, the nuns there were under the guidance of St Seraphim of Sarov who promoted the daily recitation of all 150 Hail Mary's. To this day, the nuns go as a group around the monastery reciting the prayers and, on feastdays, they sing the Hail Mary's.

This private form of prayer, which St Seraphim of Sarov said the Mother of God revealed to him as THE most important form of prayer to Her to invoke her protection over our lives, can/should be said daily by all Orthodox Christians and Eastern Catholics. It can be said at home or privately in church before Divine Liturgy and also afterwards, and in every place.

The Young Fogey/Sergei has a link on his website on how to say it in the Eastern tradition.

Alex
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