www.byzcath.org
Posted By: Anonymous holy days of obligation - 06/28/01 07:53 PM
I was raised Roman Catholic, but now we belong to a Byzantine parish (Ruthenian). I have searched the Web (with no luck) to find a list of Byzantine Holy Days of Obligation, as they are different from the RC ones that I grew up with. Can someone please help me out on this? Thanks.
Posted By: Olga Nimchek Re: holy days of obligation - 06/28/01 08:26 PM
No Catholic is obligated to search the web to find Holydays of obligation. If your parish does not observe a holyday, you have no obligation. If you are unaware of a holyday, you have no obligation. Quite simple.

Olga
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/28/01 08:55 PM
Olga, I know that no Catholic is obligated to search the WEB. I just like being an informed Catholic and a good practicing Catholic. I always knew when to anticipate an upcoming Holy Day of Obligation as a RC and since I am a practicing Catholic, I do know that today is a Holy Day (in our parish)because it was in our bulletin and announced on Sunday. So what I want to know is what are the Holy Days? Are you trying to say that they vary from parish to parish????
Posted By: Basil Re: holy days of obligation - 06/28/01 09:16 PM
Have you tried asking your priest what the holy days of oblications are for your Byzantine Catholic Church? (Jurisdiction, not parish).

Quote
Originally posted by answrs92:
I was raised Roman Catholic, but now we belong to a Byzantine parish (Ruthenian). I have searched the Web (with no luck) to find a list of Byzantine Holy Days of Obligation, as they are different from the RC ones that I grew up with. Can someone please help me out on this? Thanks.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/28/01 09:30 PM
Basil, No but I plan to do that. We have only been members there for about two months. I just started looking today, since it is a Holy Day. I didn't think it would be such a big deal!! It didn't vary in the RC rite. Just a bit confused, I guess.
Posted By: Joe Prokopchak Re: holy days of obligation - 06/28/01 10:55 PM
The remaining Holydays of Obligation for the Byzantine Catholic Church, Metropolia of Pittsburgh,(Ruthenian),for the rest of the year are:

Friday, June 29, the Feasts of Sts. Peter and Paul.
Wednesday, August 15, Dormition of the Mother of God.
Tuesday, December 25, Feast of the Nativity.

After that you should receive new liturgical calendars.

Joe Prokopchak
archsinner
Posted By: spdundas Re: holy days of obligation - 06/28/01 11:17 PM
We have lots of holy days of obligation.

Nativity of the Theotokos (Sept. 9th)
Sts. Peter and Paul June 29th
Dormition of the Theotokos (Aug. 15th)
Nativity of Jesus Christ (Dec. 25th)
Theophany of Christ (Jan. 6th)

I know we have few more, but I can't remember. I have to look at our calendar.

Also in our Eparchy, we have a feast of St. Nicholas. (Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy of St. Nicholas)

SPDundas

PS, Folks, next time you want to address "Basil" please address him respectfully as "Your Grace." We are blessed to have him lurk on our forum. Please don't use his name casually. Thank you. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Father Deacon Ed Re: holy days of obligation - 06/28/01 11:43 PM
Spundas,

It may be that the questioner was unaware of Sayedna's status...

Edward, deacon and sinner
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 01:00 AM
Thanks for the clarification, Joe and spdundas. As FrdeaconEd pointed out, I was unaware of Sayendna's status and I apologize. This is my first time to this site. Thanks again and again Your Grace, I am sorry. I did not mean to be disrespectful.
Posted By: Dr John Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 04:28 AM
What's a 'holyday of obligation'?

Where my family comes from we just have feastdays (and fast days) and we go to church to celebrate the feast. If you can make it: great! If not: great! but say a few prayers to celebrate the day.

Am I sensing a creeping sense of western perspective on feast days? In Greece (and I suspect in the rest of the Byzantine Christian world), one goes to church not because one 'has to', but rather because it's a feast day, everyone else is going to be there and one wouldn't want to miss out on being with the crowd (=ecclesia).

Blessings! (And blessed feast to all! To the Slavs: Sprazd'nikom!)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 02:48 PM
Dr. John, Happy St. Peter and Paul Feast Day. Since our Holy Father has suggested that we "learn to breathe with both lungs", perhaps education time has arrived. Your question, "What's a 'holyday of obligation'?" and later remark, "Am I sensing a creeping sense of western perspective on feast days?" really seem out of spirit with today's feast day. I believe the early Christians gently instructed the new converts and that they were not harsh in anyway to them,in regard to their past traditions or customs. If they had been harsh or haughty,our Church would have never grown to the size it is today.
As for family background, well I was raised that you were "obligated" to go to Church on Sunday and on FEAST DAYS, but that you went not because we are "obligated" to go but because you wanted to go.
I cannot speak for other RC's who are now participating in the Byzantine Rite, I can only speak for myself and our family. We are not here to impose as you put it, our "western perspective". We are here because we appreciate the reverence, beauty and tradition of the Byzantine Rite. We have been apart of this rite for only three months now and during that time have done a lot of searching and educated ourselves on the differences between the different rites. I thought both rites were a part of the Catholic Church. If that is true than perhaps a bit of love and understaning would go a long way. We are so fortunate to have found that in our new jurisdiction(thanks Bishop, I am learning).
Blessings! (And blessed feast to all! To the Slavs: Sprazd'nikom AND TO ALL CATHOLICS WHO LOVE THE LORD AND ARE SEEKING TO DO HIS WILL.
Posted By: Columcille Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 02:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by answrs92:
Dr. John, Happy St. Peter and Paul Feast Day. Since our Holy Father has suggested that we "learn to breathe with both lungs", perhaps education time has arrived. Your question, "What's a 'holyday of obligation'?" and later remark, "Am I sensing a creeping sense of western perspective on feast days?" really seem out of spirit with today's feast day. I believe the early Christians gently instructed the new converts and that they were not harsh in anyway to them,in regard to their past traditions or customs. If they had been harsh or haughty,our Church would have never grown to the size it is today.
As for family background, well I was raised that you were "obligated" to go to Church on Sunday and on FEAST DAYS, but that you went not because we are "obligated" to go but because you wanted to go.
I cannot speak for other RC's who are now participating in the Byzantine Rite, I can only speak for myself and our family. We are not here to impose as you put it, our "western perspective". We are here because we appreciate the reverence, beauty and tradition of the Byzantine Rite. We have been apart of this rite for only three months now and during that time have done a lot of searching and educated ourselves on the differences between the different rites. I thought both rites were a part of the Catholic Church. If that is true than perhaps a bit of love and understaning would go a long way. We are so fortunate to have found that in our new jurisdiction(thanks Bishop, I am learning).
Blessings! (And blessed feast to all! To the Slavs: Sprazd'nikom AND TO ALL CATHOLICS WHO LOVE THE LORD AND ARE SEEKING TO DO HIS WILL.

Most excellent points [Linked Image]

SS Peter and Paul, ora pro nobis.

Columcille
Posted By: Brendan Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 03:20 PM
Not that anyone seems very bothered by it, but those who are canonically RC are still, legally speaking, "bound" to the Latin Code of Canon Law. This creates a canonically uncomfortable situation for those who attend Byzantine parishes but are canonically Roman -- because, technically, you are still subject to the Roman Catholic canons regarding things like holy days of obligation. As a practical matter, many of these people follow the practices of the Byzantine parish where they worship, but that is not a canonical solution. I would recommend speaking with your priest about this.
This has bothered me, the choice of wording.

Obligation, here is the entry for this word in the Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.

Main Entry: ob�li�ga�tion
Pronunciation: "�-bl&-'gA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : the action of obligating oneself to a course of action (as by a promise or vow)
2 a : something (as a formal contract, a promise, or the demands of conscience or custom) that obligates one to a course of action b : a debt security (as a mortgage or corporate bond) c : a commitment (as by a government) to pay a particular sum of money; also : an amount owed under such an obligation <unable to meet its obligations, the company went into bankruptcy>
3 a : a condition or feeling of being obligated b : a debt of gratitude
4 : something one is bound to do : DUTY, RESPONSIBILITY

For some reason the use of this word seems very legalistic to me.

I prefer to look at it as Dr John put it, we go because we want to not because we have to.

I have asked a fellow Latin Catholic about this, what of the man who only goes to Mass because he is obligated to? He will not, or can not, answer this.

As it says on Melkite Greek Catholic Church Eparchy of Newton web site.

Remember: the Church does not impose. Rather, as a loving Mother, She proposes.


Your little brother in Christ,
David

ps but those of you with Mothers know what happens when you don't do what she proposes [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by dbalok (edited 06-29-2001).]
Posted By: Brendan Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 03:31 PM
David --

That view of proposing and not imposing applies to Byzantines, but not to Latins. Byzantines, for example, are often not to confess fasting-related "sins", whereas for RCs to fail to satisfy the (admittedly relaxed) canonical requirements for fasting in the Latin rite is without question a confessable sin -- and certainly even moreso if done deliberately.

The concept of obligation in the Latin rite is not entirely negative -- someone who goes to Mass when he doesn't feel inclined to, but goes anyway because he feels obliged to do so, is still validly fulfilling his obligations, and is better off that way than not going at all. One would hope such an individual would strive to become closer to God, such that Mass would be seen as more of a joy and less of an obligation -- but the obligation, if it gets people in the pews, is not always a bad thing. In Orthodoxy, if one misses liturgy for a worthy reason, one commits no sin -- but there are many Orthodox who miss liturgy way too often, and for less than worthy reasons, and there isn't this sense of "obligation" there which tends to increase church attendance. I tend to agree that it's a limited way of looking at things -- but as long as one does not fall into the trap of making it the limit of one's actions, it is not always a bad thing.

Brendan
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 03:54 PM
Brendan, Thanks for your input and clarification. Some of us really seem to be hung up on semantics here. Is it so out of the realm of peoples thinking that you can have an obligation to do something and still do it willingly and out of love? Are we not obligated to keep God's commandments and yet we keep them out of love for him? Are father's not obligated to support their children? Yet don't you support them out of love rather than obligation? This is my final comment on this semantic battle and nit picking. Instead of this ridiculous nit picking, people need to try to understand other peoples traditions, beliefs, etc. That doesn't mean you need to agree or take them on as your own. Just try to understand where the other person is coming from. Perception is Reality, folks! God Bless
Posted By: Dr John Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 05:08 PM
I think I see a hint of the conundrum in answrs92's post:

We have been apart of this rite for only three months now and during that time have done a lot of searching and educated ourselves on the differences between the different rites. I thought both rites were a part of the Catholic Church. If that is true than perhaps a bit of love and understaning would go a long way. We are so fortunate to have found that in our new jurisdiction(thanks Bishop, I am learning)."

The clue is the persistent use of the word "rite". Byzantine Catholics (and our Eastern fellow-travellers) are not a rite; we have a rite, but we are a Church. The way that we think about ourselves and the way we live, including our 'obligations' is rather unique. While study and reading are wonderful adjuncts to becoming a member of the church, the critical and key factor is living it, while integrated into the community as fully as possible.

I'm glad that your bishop is happy with your progress. By the by, who is it?

Blessings!
Posted By: Columcille Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 05:19 PM
>>>while integrated into the community as fully as possible<<<

Could you please clarify this statement for me? When you say "fully as POSSIBLE", are you saying that a former Latin Catholic can never be integrated fully? Will he/she always be look at differently?

Just wondering. Thats all.

Columcille
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 05:59 PM
Hello-

You will find on this forum that there is a great emphasis on semantics and an almost hostility toward Latin/Roman Catholics who are trying to learn about a particular approach to something from the East, but because they dont already know the answer use a Latin/Roman/Western term to ask. I have been attending a Byzantine parish for almost 3 years now, have, for the most part stopped looking to this forum for info because I was afraid that my fellow parishioners were looking at my family with the same "suspicious" attitude that I found here.
Some of the folks here are very encouraging, but wading through all the other stuff is rough.

My advice is to learn about the Eastern Church from attending Divine Liturgy as often as you can. Do not miss any feast days if you can help it.

If you have a question and dont want to ask your priest, Anthony is wonderful on his EWTN QandA forum and he will give you a polite answer.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 07:31 PM
Thanks, Columcille and Mom Walsh. Any and all support and christian behavior is much appreciated. I am wondering if the judgemental people on this site have children and if they are as non- compassionate with them. We all have to learn somehow and just as children struggle to learn, those of us who appreciate the Byzantine Church and were not BORN into it, struggle to learn and understand ways that are new to us, but it sounds like, even if those of us who were reared in the RC rite and decided to change rites, which can be done, we still wouldn't be accepted by some. In retrospect, I guess our Catholic Church would be in sad shape if we all had to have been "born" into it.

Hmm, all this sort of reminds me of Scripture...Pharisee's, Scribes, Samaritan... Then there was the Book of Ruth, but I think she even got more compassion and support than what has been displayed here (with a few exceptions). It also seems very sad that this discussion is even taking place, especially on this Feast Day. I am sure we would all benefit from reading some of Paul's writings today and maybe we would learn better how to treat one another.
Posted By: Dr John Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 08:43 PM
Above, I stated: "The way that we think about ourselves and the way we live, including our 'obligations' is rather unique. While study and reading are wonderful adjuncts to becoming a member of the church, the critical and key factor is living it, while integrated into the community as fully as possible."

Mom Walsh posts: "My advice is to learn about the Eastern Church from attending Divine Liturgy as often as you can. Do not miss any feast days if you can help it."

We're both saying the same thing: integration in the community means going to liturgy, making pierogi/cookies/poppystrudel/etc., working bingo, staffing the festival, and being everywhere when things are going on. People can't get to know you (and love you) if you're only there for church on Sunday morning and only hang around for a few minutes afterwards.

To Columkille's question: becoming a member of the Byzantine Church is like getting married. You get a whole new family in the blink of an eye. It's going to take time to get used to the situation, hear the family history, the family jokes, eat the family favorite foods, etc. Gradually, you'll be so integrated that they'll forget that you weren't born to them. I see coming to the Byzantine church in this way. It takes effort on both sides, but being there a lot really greases the skids.

By the way, answrs92, you never told us who your bishop is who is encouraging you.

Blessings!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 09:10 PM
Dr John, Well said. One of the reasons that we became members of the Church that we now belong to is because of the people. They are open and friendly and made us feel welcome and truely at home. We became involved from the beginning. Tomorrow we will be joining everyone to make peroiges and really look forward to that. It is a food that we have enjoyed for many years and now we can learn how to make them. The fellowship will be wonderful too.
As far as your question, what bishop is encouraging me, I am not sure what you mean by that. Therefore, I have not responded.
Posted By: RichC Re: holy days of obligation - 06/29/01 09:42 PM
Dear folks,
All this discussion about the appropriateness of an "obligation" mindset for Byzantine Christians is all well and good, but are we not obligated to obey our bishops?

Are our Byzantine bishops in their power to say that such-and-such (attending Liturgy, following the fasting rules) is binding "under pain of sin" ? It seems to me that they are, because they most certainly HAVE said this. Thus, when we transgress these things out of apathy, laziness, or disobedience (which seems to be the "Byzantine" way that is glorified here), we have committed sin.

Whether or not that sin must be confessed I can't say, but outright disobedience to legitimate authority (our bishop, for God's sake!) seems to be a good thing to seek absolution for.

Leaving for the festal Liturgy in a few minutes...

[This message has been edited by RichC (edited 06-29-2001).]
Posted By: Dr John Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 12:50 AM
Answrs92, I am very happy to learn that you and your family are very actively involved in the activities of the parish. It is the best way to become a fully integrated member of the community.

My question about the bishop was based upon your comment: thanks, Bishop, I am learning. I was wondering whom you were referring to.

Have fun with the pierogi making. If you do it right, you'll come home with flour in your hair, and on your clothes, and in your shoes, and........

Blessings!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 12:58 AM
Dr John, The thanks to the Bishop was in regard to a previous note where I was corrected when I wrote parish and told it is jurisdiction in the Byzantine Church. Happy Feast Day to All.
Posted By: Mor Ephrem Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 02:24 AM
Dr. John,

I think he was talking to Basil thirumeni (bishop, in Malayalam), hence the thanks offered to him. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Three Cents Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 02:53 AM
To SCOBA North American Orthodox, Saidna Basil's Cathedral is in Wichita and his website is www.antiochian.org. [antiochian.org.] Phoenix isn't in his Region. It is in Saidna Joseph's. Please pray that the Autonomy request to the Holy Synod in Damascus passes tremendously at the upcoming National Convention in LA. It will be a huge step forward for North American Orthodoxy (and my personal dream of a united and canonical Autocephalous, or at least Autonomous Church). If Constantinople needs the money, then the Mt. Sinai Autocephaly model may be the answer. Abba only knows the potential of a united and canonical North American Orthodox Church.

Respectfully,

Three Cents
Posted By: Dr John Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 04:11 AM
Sorry, three cents, but the last post REALLY confused me.

Are you saying that answrs92 is a parishoner of Bishop Basil of the Antiochian Orthodox Church, whose cathedral is located in Wichita, Kansas? And that therefore there is a canonical parish in Scottsdale that is within this diocese?

But answrs92 talks about being in a Ruthenian parish. This seems to me to be under the omophor of the recently retired Bishop George.

So, I'm still confused, answrs92. Are you pursuing your spiritual pathway under the jurisdiction of the Van Nuys/Phoenix Byzantine Catholic Ruthenian diocese? Or are you pursuing your pathway under some other bishop?

Blessings!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 04:53 AM
Dr John, I am as confused as you over Three Cents post. It didn't seem to connect with any previous ones. You are correct in your observation, "Ruthenian and Retired Bishop George." I am not sure how I ended up in Witchita??? I think I have been there twice in my life though.
If everyone would just go back to the beginning of these posts they would see that at one point I was told that "Basil" was a Bishop. I apolologized for my seemingly disrespect, as I did not know that. Later I simply thanked him for educating me on semantics. RC's say parish and he gave me the counter-jurisdiction, which I inturn used.
Posted By: Three Cents Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 05:03 AM
Hi Dr. John:

The previous postings referred to Basil as Sayedna Basil and if you click his personal info it says "American Orthodox". There are numerous Orthodox "jurisdicions", but Saidna Basil of SCOBA is Bishop Basil (and no other SCOBA jurisdiction uses Arabic to address their Bishops). Also, when you click into the website of the "American Orthodox Diocese of Phoenix" you see an icon of Our Lord and Savior and an unfinished site. I was basically responding to Lance, whom I'm believe is a Melkite Greek Catholic diaconal candidate. If it is indeed Saidna Basil lurking, direct your Liturgical questions in his direction (The Liturgicon according to the usage of the Great Church was done in the 1980s when His Grace was still an Archimandrite). His Grace is one of the finest Byzantine liturgists in the world!

However, if this American Orthodox Church is really Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic, then all the questions are answered. But to SCOBA Orthodox (as opposed to "American"), there is only one Saidna Basil. And if he is indeed lurking in this Forum under some "interesting" Phoenix address, all are truly Blessed with His Grace's presence.

Yours in Christ,

Three Cents
Posted By: Dr John Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 05:31 AM
Thanks for the response, threecents.

I know of two bishops named Basil. One is Bp. Basil Schott, eparch of the Ruthenian Byzantine diocese of Parma, Ohio. The second was the late Bishop Basil of the OCA who went home to the Lord here in Washington about a year ago.

The only other bishop Basil who shows up in the episcopal register is a bishop in Phoenix, whose orders are from from Walter Propheta and Christopher Maria Stanley who lay claim to orders from Bp. Oftemios Ofiesh, a Syrian, who was consecrated by the Muscovite patriarchate for service to the non-Russian Orthodox in America. For some reason that I don't yet understand, this branch of Orthodoxy somehow became dis-enfranchised from the rest of canonical Orthodoxy. While their communities insist that their orders are valid, the rest of SCOBA Orthodoxy has left them out in the cold. (If one can say that about a diocese in Phoenix, Arizona!)

It would appear then, that answr92 belongs to the Byzantine (Catholic) eparchy of Van Nuys/Phoenix under the omophor of the recently retired Bishop George.

Bishop Basil, who posts here, then must be not the Antiochian Orthodox archdiocese, but part of the Ofiesh/DeLattre/Miller/Stanley lineage of independent Orthodox churches, not affiliated with Rome/John Paul II nor with the SCOBA, ethnic Orthodox churches.

And we wonder why people call us Byzantine! Our 'family tree' must give even the Mormons a headache.

Blessings!

[This message has been edited by Dr John (edited 06-30-2001).]
Posted By: NDHoosier Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 06:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by answrs92:
Some of us really seem to be hung up on semantics here. Is it so out of the realm of peoples thinking that you can have an obligation to do something and still do it willingly and out of love? Are we not obligated to keep God's commandments and yet we keep them out of love for him?

From what I have read, Orthodox Jews, especially Hasidic Jews, deal with this supposed dichotomy quite nicely.

Two of the teachings of the Talmud are that "pious people rush to fulfill a mitzvah (commandment)", and then, "When a mitzvah comes your way, do not delay in fulfilling it." Hasidic Jews also stress "the joy of fulfilling a mitzvah."

Moreover, Jews regard an action done because it fulfills a mitzvah to have a higher moral quality than an action done entirely voluntarily.

(...segue...)

Immanuel Kant (yes, not exactly an orthodox Christian) stated that duty was the virtue that logically preceded all others. There is a lot of truth in this. Jesus commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Rewritten: You have a duty to love your neighbor as yourself. In Christ's commandment, the virtue of duty logically precedes the virtue of charity. This is not true for God, since God is not obligated to anyone (unless he obligates Himself of His own free will, i.e. covenants).

(...segue...)

Dr. John is right in that one who practices perfect charity is no longer bound by obligation (the virtue of duty) because that person correctly views the relationships between himself/herself and others and acts accordingly. Such a person is then more perfectly reflects God, who is not subject to obligation (St. Paul: "the law") (see above), but freely gives because of love. However, because of our fallen nature, we do not see things in perfect charity, and thus we must fall back on the virtue of duty to inform our imperfect wills.

Duty, however, always has a concrete subject of fulfillment. This requires the listing of those subjects of fulfillment, and this is usually referred to a law.

Hence, laws are necessary because our wills are imperfect. Only those who have perfect charity can dispense with reference to laws and obligations. And since we are all sinners ,and hence do not have perfect charity, reference to laws and obligations is necessary for us.

So...yes, we Christians are working towards perfect charity, but we're not there yet, and still need guideposts for what is right and what is wrong. Eventually, we hope to get to a point where we don't think of a "Holy Day of Obligation", but just a "Holy Day".

Again, I'm afraid I haven't been as clear as I wanted to be. I did want to show that obligation and caritas are not mutually exclusive.

--NDHoosier

[This message has been edited by NDHoosier (edited 06-30-2001).]
Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance Re: holy days of obligation - 06/30/01 06:56 PM
Three Cents,

Just for clarification, I am a candidate for the Byzantine Archeparchy of Pittsburgh.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate
Posted By: loukas Re: holy days of obligation - 07/01/01 08:17 PM
As one of the flock of Bp BASIL of Wichita I'd be extremely surprised to find that he was lurking on this forum.

loukas
Posted By: Dr John Re: holy days of obligation - 07/02/01 01:19 AM
Thanks, NDHoosier, for the clarification. Actually, in college, as a philosophy major, I really like Kant -- he made sense. Some of the rest of them,.....Oy, a headache.

Up above, you note:

"Hence, laws are necessary because our wills are imperfect. Only those who have perfect charity can dispense with reference to laws and obligations. And since we are all sinners ,and hence do not have perfect charity, reference to laws and obligations is necessary for us."

This makes perfect sense, and would make Immanuel Kant nod approvingly.

"So...yes, we Christians are working towards perfect charity, but we're not there yet, and still need guideposts for what is right and what is wrong. Eventually, we hope to get to a point where we don't think of a "Holy Day of Obligation", but just a "Holy Day"."

Right again. However, let me take it a step further, and look beyond the rational understanding.

As Christians, we ARE working towards perfect charity, and indeed the guideposts that laws, rules, regulations, etc. provide to us are useful. Yet, at the same time, I would ask that each Christian first examine the situation and ask him/herself, what can I do to show God's love -- and my love -- for the person? This takes a type of 'very outgoing' personality, someone who is empathic to the sufferings and needs of others and feels the desire to do good for the person. This attitude can come from years of prayerful practice. If one gets in the habit of doing this, and I see it as the everyday practice of 'praying always', then it is oftentimes quite clear right away what one should do. [Some folks have the notion that constantly reciting some external prayer is what is meant by 'praying always'. To me, that is 'reciting' always. True prayer for me means mentally saying: "God! Be here for me now!" or "Lord! In Your mercy...." anytime I need to make decisions and then relying upon God's grace to guide my decision.

In this context, I don't much think about laws or regulations.

Lord knows, I'm not perfect. Nowhere near it. But I think that the recommendations of the spiritual sages to "abandon one's self to the Spirit" guides us in precisely this direction.

Each Christian should live his/her life and confront decision-making with the ongoing mindset of "Lord! In Your mercy...." and then making the decision that most conforms to Love. It takes time to get out of the: "The Law requires....." mindset. And I think that this is what knocked St. Paul's socks off when he said: "Oh the freedom of the children of God!"

It's scary sometimes. And when practicing this kind of Christian lifestyle, especially at the beginning, there can be serious, nagging doubts about having done what is right. But at the same time, if one is truly praying, both liturgically and in the private-time by "lifting one's heart and mind to God", then it becomes vastly easier.

It's not that I don't have 'respect for the Law', I do. But as a Christian, I believe that I'm impelled to practice a different lifestyle.

As the Hebrew National franks advertisement says: "I answer to a higher authority" than the Law.

Blessings!
Posted By: The young fogey Re: holy days of obligation - 07/02/01 01:56 AM
Aftimios was a real Orthodox bishop, consecrated by the Russians in America in the 1920s for work in America, as Dr John wrote. He stopped being a clergyman when he married in 1933. At least one pseudo-Orthodox vagante group claims to have got its �line of succession� (real Orthodox don�t talk like that) from him, because some of the priests (former Episcopalians) he ordained while an Orthodox bishop later got mixed up in vagante nonsense.

Serge

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</a>
Posted By: Bob_Gard Re: holy days of obligation - 03/01/07 05:28 PM
Hello,

I know that this is an old discussion, but it was peaked my interest. I am curious now if there is a difference between the BC's understanding of "obligation," and that of the RC? In the RC there is a penal aspect associated with missing Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation, and while I am not certain if that fits in well with the Eastern concept, I do know that there are Holy Days of Obligation on our calendar as well. I always naturally assumed it was the same understanding, but would be more than happy to be disabused of this notion.
© The Byzantine Forum