www.byzcath.org
Posted By: Prester John What the... - 11/11/09 05:55 PM
CatholicMatch.com
My wife saw this on Drudge this morning, and it is clearly not a Catholic Church - not even an Eastern Rite one. They carefully don't show the priest (which would give it away).

This has to be a Russian Orthodox Church.

Surely, if you are trolling for Catholic singles, you can show a Catholic church? Yes?
Posted By: Our Lady's slave Re: What the... - 11/11/09 06:03 PM
'scuse me !

Why not an EC Church ? Nowt wrong with that Iconostasis - could be either EC or EO

It's just , I suspect , a stock photo which looks good
Posted By: StuartK Re: What the... - 11/11/09 06:11 PM
The feel of the decorations around the iconstasis, and the presence of what seems like a stained glass window in the sanctuary, leads me to believe it is a Greek Catholic church, probably Ukrainian, probably in Canada.
Posted By: Prester John Re: What the... - 11/11/09 10:38 PM
I'm just speaking from my experience, but I'm quite sure it is not an EC Church. I've seen EC Churches and Ukrainian Churches. They usually have a more open iconostasis, and never resemble a class Russian Cathedral, as this does. IMHO, this has Russian Orthodox written all over it.

Specifically, I've only seen the sky high iconostasis in Russian Churches.

I'll happily be corrected, but I'm pretty sure it is an Orthodox church. Again, if anyone knows specifically what parish it is, I'll be happily corrected.

On another note, it is kind of disingenuous to portray this photo on a Catholic Match site.
Posted By: Slavophile Re: What the... - 11/11/09 11:12 PM
Quote
I've only seen the sky high iconostasis in Russian Churches.


I was in L'viv this past summer studying Ukrainian, and saw Iconostasis like this one in a few churches: EC; not EO.

I suspect it could well be as StuartK describes.
Posted By: StuartK Re: What the... - 11/11/09 11:44 PM
Quote
On another note, it is kind of disingenuous to portray this photo on a Catholic Match site.


So, what are we? Chopped liver? I could be cruel and suggest they wanted a church that really looked like a church.
Posted By: Slavipodvizhnik Re: What the... - 11/12/09 12:20 AM
Actually, if you look close at the icon next to the Deacon door on the right, it appears to be an icon of St Iov of Pochaev. Which would kind of rule out it being an EC iconostas.
Posted By: 70x7 Re: What the... - 11/12/09 12:57 AM
I know that this is fun wondering about what kind of church is in the picture, but how about cracking the mystery by e-mailing these people!?

Ray
Posted By: Administrator Re: What the... - 11/12/09 01:03 AM
The photo could be of either a Byzantine / Greek Catholic or an Orthodox temple (I have no idea). If you look through the holy doors at that site it looks like a very western Savior in what seems to be a stained glass window. But that again could be in either a Byzantine Catholic or Orthodox temple.

Higher tiered icon screens are not that unusual in Byzantine Catholic Churches.

This thread has a photo of the original icon screen from Windber. They style was almost universal in the churches built late 19th and early 20th century.

Here is one at St. George the Great Martyr Byzantine Catholic Church in Aliquippa (not the best picture and before the walls were done):
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance Re: What the... - 11/12/09 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by Prester John
I'm just speaking from my experience, but I'm quite sure it is not an EC Church. I've seen EC Churches and Ukrainian Churches. They usually have a more open iconostasis, and never resemble a class Russian Cathedral, as this does. IMHO, this has Russian Orthodox written all over it.

Specifically, I've only seen the sky high iconostasis in Russian Churches.

I'll happily be corrected, but I'm pretty sure it is an Orthodox church. Again, if anyone knows specifically what parish it is, I'll be happily corrected.

On another note, it is kind of disingenuous to portray this photo on a Catholic Match site.


I cannot say which Church the one in the picture belongs to, but I have certainly seen Greek Catholic Churches that look exactly like that. I have also seen Orthodox Churches with a more open icon screen like many Greek Catholic Churches have.

Posted By: DTBrown Re: What the... - 11/12/09 01:31 AM
Father John,

There are some Greek Catholic churches that have a very traditional (even sky-high) iconostas. Some Greek Catholic parishes have a more open iconostas but there are some (even newer parishes) that have a more traditional look. Next time you're in the Phoenix-Mesa area, look up St. Thomas Byzantine Catholic Church in Gilbert. It's quite a beautiful temple (and my former spiritual home). It's interior dates from the early 90s.
Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance Re: What the... - 11/12/09 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by Prester John
CatholicMatch.com
My wife saw this on Drudge this morning, and it is clearly not a Catholic Church - not even an Eastern Rite one. They carefully don't show the priest (which would give it away).

This has to be a Russian Orthodox Church.

Surely, if you are trolling for Catholic singles, you can show a Catholic church? Yes?


Not sure why showing the priest would give it away. I know many Greek Catholic priests with full beards and that wear highback phelons. I also know many clean shaven Russian Orthodox priests that wear Greek style phelons.

Perhaps a bigger giveaway are those bare shoulders on the bride.

Fr. Deacon Lance
Posted By: 70x7 Re: What the... - 11/12/09 01:37 AM
Just say its an "Orthodox Greek Catholic" Church and call it a day. LOL! ;-)
Posted By: StuartK Re: What the... - 11/12/09 02:47 AM
I think it should be Greek Catholic Orthodox Church.
Posted By: Prester John Re: What the... - 11/12/09 03:52 AM
Brethren, I stand corrected - and want to assure you that I was speaking from my own experience of such Churches.

Thanks also for your kind and good-humored responses!
Posted By: Irish Melkite Re: What the... - 11/13/09 06:26 AM
Just a note - we had some discussion of this same photo very recently on the Forum's Photo Gallery - see here.

Notably, we reached no conclusion at that time either. I will say, though, that, in viewing it again, I am really find myself wondering if it's been photoshopped to insert the couple.

The very recently suppressed Holy Ghost Byzantine Church in Cleveland is a striking example of a floor to ceiling iconostasis - see here.

I suspect that Father John's experience and exposure may have been colored by his location. Having viewed photos of several hundred iconostases in the past two years of working on the Directory, the more solid and higher ones are generally to be found in the East and Upper Midwest - particularly the 'Holy Lands' of the Coal and Rust Belts - whereas those in the Southwest are more likely to be open and/or shorter in height.

Many years,

Neil
Posted By: aramis Re: What the... - 11/13/09 09:45 AM
Fr. John: St. Nicholas of Myra has a full height iconostas, and it's Ruthenian...

We used to have the "open" style, in fact, it was just ironwork and completely visible through, save for the 4 main icons. But many UGCC and Ruthenian parishes with the more open style have since installed/reinstalled more traditional iconostas.
Posted By: Prester John Re: What the... - 11/21/09 05:48 AM
For the record, most all of the EC Churches I've been in are in the east or midwest.
Posted By: Irish Melkite Re: What the... - 11/21/09 07:49 AM
Originally Posted by Prester John
For the record, most all of the EC Churches I've been in are in the east or midwest.


Oh well, so much for guessing biggrin
Posted By: Pavel Ivanovich Re: What the... - 11/21/09 02:57 PM
The railings in front of the iconostasis is not seen in many churches today. That might be a clue.
Posted By: Systratiotes Re: What the... - 11/21/09 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Notably, we reached no conclusion at that time either. I will say, though, that, in viewing it again, I am really find myself wondering if it's been photoshopped to insert the couple.

Oddities of lighting in the image cause me to think the couple in the ad are indeed graffed in from a different picture. It looks to me like just another photoshop job.

τω συστρατιωτης
Posted By: Irish Melkite Re: What the... - 11/22/09 05:37 AM
Originally Posted by Pavel Ivanovich
The railings in front of the iconostasis is not seen in many churches today. That might be a clue.


Nice catch, Paul.
Posted By: Kathleen Elsie Re: What the... - 11/22/09 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by aramis
Fr. John: St. Nicholas of Myra has a full height iconostas, and it's Ruthenian...

We used to have the "open" style, in fact, it was just ironwork and completely visible through, save for the 4 main icons. But many UGCC and Ruthenian parishes with the more open style have since installed/reinstalled more traditional iconostas.


Ours is still the form you mentioned. Looks strange now that we are doing the walls.
Posted By: aramis Re: What the... - 11/23/09 09:39 AM
In some ways, I miss the old Ironwork; It had several stages...
Stage 0: mosaic icons to either side of sanctuary (Pantocrator, Theotokos), no iconostasis at all. Sanctuary has mosaic icon of cross with crucifix mounted in front.
Stage 1: Just the ironwork, with doors; Icons still present
Stage 2: Add Pantocrator and Theotokos Icons on iconostas
Stage 3: Add Sts Nicholas of Myra and John the Forerunner on iconostas
Stage 4 (New Iconostas stage 1): replace with wooden iconostasis and doors, but missing upper icons, and using old icons
Stage 5 (Stage 2): Upper frame added, 4 great Icons on iconostas replaced, mosaic icons remain to sides, mosaic & crucifix in sanctuary remains. Nothing of old Iconostas remains in use.

New Iconostas has since had upper rack and door icons added a few at a time as the Iconographer completed them.

Posted By: griego catolico Re: What the... - 11/28/09 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by 70x7
I know that this is fun wondering about what kind of church is in the picture, but how about cracking the mystery by e-mailing these people!?

Ray


There doesn't appear to be an e-mail address on their site. I could only find a link where you can ask a question by "submitting a ticket": http://www.catholicmatch.com/help/ticket.html
Posted By: Irish Melkite Re: What the... - 12/01/09 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by 70x7
I know that this is fun wondering about what kind of church is in the picture, but how about cracking the mystery by e-mailing these people!?


How un-Byzantine, Ray biggrin
Posted By: griego catolico Re: What the... - 03/17/10 06:24 PM
I sent an email to Catholicmatch.com about the church used in their advertising.

This was their response:

Quote
This church photo is a stock photo that we used, and we do not know where it came from. We purchased the rights to use the photo because of it's architectural beauty. We're not sure whether the church is Byzantine or Eastern Orthodox. We do not know the location or name of the church.
Posted By: Irish Melkite Re: What the... - 03/18/10 07:07 AM
Griego,

I saw that identical response elsewhere. They've certainly gotten their money's worth from the photo - it has attracted attention, commentary, and analysis on OC.net, CAF, and at least one other site besides here - as well as on a couple of blogs.

Btw, as to the question of it being photoshopped, two friends of mine, both quite expert at such things, idependently examined it closely. Both assured me that it is not; each pointed out that detail of the iconostasis can be viewed through the diaphanous texture of the bride's veil as the basis for their conclusion.

Many years,

Neil
Posted By: chadrook Re: What the... - 03/20/10 06:32 PM
I also believe it to be photo shopped. I have some more questions about this.
1. Where are the sponsors?
2. Where are the crowns?
3. Where is the table with gospel, wedding chalice and icons on it?
4. And we have already covered where is the priest?
Posted By: griego catolico Re: What the... - 04/04/14 06:36 PM
Thanks to Asteriktos from OrthodoxChristianity.net, there are some answers to the CatholicMatch.com photo.
You can see more photos of the church here. We can rule out that the photos were photo-shopped.

The photographer is a Ms. Tatiana Morozova from Moscow, Russia. An email has been sent to the photographer to enquire where she took these photos. No response as yet.
The priest shown at the wedding wears a Russian-style phelonion. Although the location of this church is yet to be known, I would say it is reasonable to deduce that it is not a Byzantine Catholic parish, but Russian Orthodox.
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