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Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution"

Posted By: TomC

Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/24/10 03:02 PM

Via the Rorate Caeli blog, some "interesting" comments from Bishop William Shomali of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem as reported in ZENIT.

Quote
One peculiarity of the Middle East is the large number of sui iuris Eastern Churches that have taken root here: the Melkites, Syrians, Maronites, Copts, Armenians and Chaldeans. These churches need to live their liturgical and linguistic particularity on the one hand, and a greater communion among themselves on the other. Currently, this communion leaves something to be desired. They also need pastoral and liturgical renewal. The Latin Church went through this change at the Second Vatican Council, which revolutionized its liturgy and ecclesiology and gave it a new openness to the world. The Eastern Churches are in need of a similar revolution so that they might be able to adapt and modernize and thus better meet the needs of their congregations today.


Posted By: Apotheoun

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/25/10 01:08 AM

Nuts!
Posted By: Nelson Chase

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 05/25/10 01:32 AM

I find His Graces commits to be a bit off the rocker. Thank God the Eastern Catholic Patriarchs (and the Pope) are not of his opinion.

Posted By: sielos ilgesys

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/25/10 01:33 AM

I reckon he's entitled to his opinion (after all the drama & trauma the Latin Church went through after it's "liturgical renovation", I have trouble agreeing with him) but - I think what we ECs need is absolutely no interference whatsoever by Latin hierarchs in the liturgical affairs of our sui juris Churches.
What an misguided, unfortunate thing to have said. Downright insulting if you ask me. Of all the nerve!
Posted By: Hesychios

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/25/10 01:42 AM

Wow
Posted By: Jakub.

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/25/10 01:48 AM

They also need pastoral and liturgical renewal. The Latin Church went through this change at the Second Vatican Council, which revolutionized its liturgy and ecclesiology and gave it a new openness to the world.... crazy



Posted By: aramis

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/25/10 02:17 AM

His Beatitude needs to reread Orientale Lumen...
Posted By: Logos - Alexis

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 05/25/10 03:08 AM

Bet he's over 60...

Alexis
Posted By: Logos - Alexis

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 05/25/10 03:10 AM

Ha! Just checked. He turned 60 on May 15th.

It's funny you can often tell the generation a Roman Catholic belongs to just based off little quotes like this.

Alexis
Posted By: Fr Serge Keleher

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 05/25/10 07:27 AM

An aging hippy strikes again. Surely the Latins have troubles enough of their own. And their record in the twentieth century should not encourage anyone to turn the altar upside down. Still, it seems that misery loves company.

Fr. Serge
Posted By: Irish Melkite

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 05/25/10 07:50 AM

Our Churches have 'taken root (t)here' - hmm, sounds as though they were born of seedlings borne on the wind from elsewhere. Does the good bishop perceive his Church to be native to the region?
Posted By: StuartK

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 05/25/10 11:39 AM

"Have taken root there"? The solipsism is incredible, on par with the apocryphal British headline, "Fog in Channel, Continent Cut Off".
Posted By: Erie Byz

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/25/10 01:26 PM

Thank God that it isn't His Beatitude, but an Auxiliary, who is not yet a bishop. His ordination is scheduled for Thursday, according to the site of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem.
Posted By: StuartK

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/25/10 01:36 PM

Isn't it about time that all titular patriarchates were suppressed?
Posted By: Erie Byz

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/25/10 04:36 PM

Yes.
Posted By: Logos - Alexis

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/27/10 01:38 AM

Anyway, the chutzpah of a Latin bishop demanding that the Eastern Churches likewise attempt to what I can only describe something I and many others believe is "liturgical and theological suicide" is deeply offensive. And I'm a (proud!) Latin.

Alexis
Posted By: mardukm

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 05/27/10 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Our Churches have 'taken root (t)here' - hmm, sounds as though they were born of seedlings borne on the wind from elsewhere. Does the good bishop perceive his Church to be native to the region?

Yes. I believe that was the most offensive part of the speech. To me, the "liturgical renewal" comment was more ludicrous than offensive.

Blessings
Posted By: likethethief

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 05/28/10 04:23 AM

eek Where's the emoticon for screaming and tearing one's hair out?

Being of the same generation as Auxiliary Bishop William may I ask: What's he been smoking?

I see his statement is quite lengthy. If it starts pouring rain again here and I don't want to go out maybe I'll see what else he's got floating about in his mind.
Posted By: StuartK

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 05/28/10 11:13 AM

Quote
If it starts pouring rain again here and I don't want to go out maybe I'll see what else he's got floating about in his mind.


Just remember it is not just the cream that rises to the top.
Posted By: Ignatius117

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 06/12/10 02:59 AM

WHAT? "Taken root?" "Liturgical renewal?" I'm not even sure how to respond... Saying that the Eastern Churches should change the tradition that has been handed down to them is ludicrous, and having a disregard for the origins of the Eastern churches is ignorant and in the highest distaste, to put it as lightly as possible.
Posted By: bkovacs

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 07/06/10 05:38 AM

And the Pope wants Roman Catholics to rediscover their Roman Catholic identity (Extraordinary Form, Reform of the Reform, Gregorian Chant, etc). This guy needs to pay a visit to the Pope and re-think his comments. Eastern Christianity doesn't need or want the same shambles the 60's and 70's gave to Roman Catholics. Eastern Christians are not Protestants.
Posted By: danman916

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolutio - 07/06/10 02:49 PM

Not all reforms of the latin rite are/were bad. Some were badly needed. The liturgy in the west was constantly reformed to meet the needs of the time, not so much in the east. In the east, this has not been the case, so it seems odd to suggest that a revolutionary reform is needed when the east hasn't had the history of reforms additions, etc. that the west had had over time.
However, when talking about liturgical renewal, that means different things to different people.
Posted By: Deacon Robert Behrens

Re: Latin Bp of Jerusalem: EC Churches Need Liturgical "Revolution" - 07/06/10 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by TomC
Via the Rorate Caeli blog, some "interesting" comments from Bishop William Shomali of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem as reported in ZENIT.

Quote
One peculiarity of the Middle East is the large number of sui iuris Eastern Churches that have taken root here: the Melkites, Syrians, Maronites, Copts, Armenians and Chaldeans. These churches need to live their liturgical and linguistic particularity on the one hand, and a greater communion among themselves on the other. Currently, this communion leaves something to be desired. They also need pastoral and liturgical renewal. The Latin Church went through this change at the Second Vatican Council, which revolutionized its liturgy and ecclesiology and gave it a new openness to the world. The Eastern Churches are in need of a similar revolution so that they might be able to adapt and modernize and thus better meet the needs of their congregations today.




Yes, we need to embrace Marty Haugen and the St. Louis Jesuits, and throw in a little "Peter, Paul & Mary", not to mention clapping in church, and celebrations facing the people by "Father Smile". Thanks, but no thanks. I bolted on all of that in 1970 when they forced it down our throats in the Western Church. Now that the West is beginning to re-discover Tradition, we have warmed-over "60's relevant" types who don't wan't to admit that they were dead wrong. The demise of this "spirit of Vatican II" can't arrive quickly enough!!!!

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