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Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI

Posted By: IrishJohan

Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/15/02 11:54 PM

This is for anyone here who may use materials by these folks... I believe it is time to call for a complete and total boycott of all materials from Robert Sungenis and Catholic Apologetics International. Please see the following: Just Your Average Catholic Guy
Posted By: Nigula Qian Zishi

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 12:16 AM

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Then again before we react, maybe we should read what it says from CAI, no?

http://www.catholicintl.com/

God Bless!

IC XC NIKA,
-Nik!
Posted By: Mor Ephrem

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 12:18 AM

I wouldn't mind the boycott if it was just on the charge of anti-semitism. But if you read Sungenis' article, there is a lot in there that is not anti-semite, and that reflects badly on the state of Roman Catholic theology in the modern era. For instance, the following quote:

The new document also contains an apology to the Jewish people for anti-Semitic passages contained in the New Testament, and also stresses the continuing importance of the Torah for Christians. That the PBC thinks it has to apologize for Scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit is quite audacious, but it may be explained by the fact that the PBC has long since denied that all the sayings of Jesus and the Apostles recorded in the New Testament are inspired by God.

I've never heard anyone specifically deny that this and other things the article mentions never happened; I've never seen a refutation of his work. If they never happened, then someone should let us know about it. If they did happen, though, there is a lot to answer for.
Posted By: Mor Ephrem

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 12:21 AM

And I have read the article, and while I can see why some might think there was anti-semitism in it, I didn't take away from my reading of it that it was anti-semitic. Of course, if you want to say it is anti-semitic, you should also say that it pretty much says that the RCC is sliding into heresy...in which case, Catholics have more of a reason to boycott, but only after proving that he's wrong, as he's brought up many points which demand an answer.
Posted By: no one

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 12:24 AM

I read their site and find them very frightening on many levels. Another private do-it-yourself Inquisition set up in my opinion. I find that scarier than any of the recent scandals in the Church. Don
Posted By: IrishJohan

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 05:00 AM

Quote
Originally posted by Nik:
Then again before we react, maybe we should read what it says from CAI, no?
http://www.catholicintl.com/


My apologies for not making that clear. I have said on my weblog that everyone should read the article in question for themselves. By all means, please do so.
Posted By: IrishJohan

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 05:02 AM

Quote
Originally posted by Mor Ephrem:
I wouldn't mind the boycott if it was just on the charge of anti-semitism. But if you read Sungenis' article, there is a lot in there that is not anti-semite, and that reflects badly on the state of Roman Catholic theology in the modern era.


It is only for the anti-Semitism, nothing more. I know nothing of the Talmud so cannot take a position one way or the other about his comments concerning it. I also have expressed my own reservations about the Reflections document on my weblog.
Posted By: Mor Ephrem

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 12:31 PM

Quote
Originally posted by IrishJohan:


It is only for the anti-Semitism, nothing more. I know nothing of the Talmud so cannot take a position one way or the other about his comments concerning it. I also have expressed my own reservations about the Reflections document on my weblog.


Thanks, Irish Johan. I guess I should've made myself a bit more clear. If Sungenis' article was just one long anti-semite rant, boycott away. But I guess I just see more pertinent issues than anti-semitism (and from my reading of it, as I said, even though I understand how some could read it as anti-semite, that's not what I got from it). If an article was anti-Catholic but praised hardcore child pornography as a legitimate art form that should be propagated, I would have more of a problem with the child pornography part than with the anti-Catholicism. Maybe that's just how I look at things. So if this article has anti-semitic tones to it, it still doesn't bother me nearly as much as the allegations that are made against the Roman Catholic Church. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather see someone refute his arguments against the Roman Catholic Church in as systematic a fashion as he made them before I even begin to tackle any questions of anti-semitism.
Posted By: traveler

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 12:53 PM

The poor Jews!

So bright and so talented, yet so despised.

Well, in the case of the Jews, Christians and Muslims do have something in common: hatred for Jews.

And why do the Muslims and Christians so despise the Jews? Maybe it is out of fear. After all, the Jews have historically rejected the claims of Christianity and Islam to be the "true faith" (and have paid a terrible price of millions martyred for their "obstinacy.")

Maybe the Khazars were right?

Am Yisroel kai!

Abdur

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]
Posted By: Seeker of God

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 02:13 PM

I find it an incredibly absurd reading of history that happens today, when people act like Christians killed Jews and it never happened the opposite way. I hope that's not what you too believe, Abdur. Saul of Tarsus was not the first Jew to condone the murder Christians for their beliefs, and he was far from the last.

I don't "hate" Jews, and I know few people who hate individual Jews; at most, the Church Fathers hated the culture and religion of the Jews, and used it as an example of unbelief. Gee, that kinda sounds like how the Jews used certain religions/cultures as bad examples. So what morally seperates anti-babylonianism (or anti-Egyptian, or...) and anti-semitism? Nothing, if the charges are true.

Btw, I have a Jewish Uncle, Aunt, and 2 cousins, and we have no problem getting along. I'm not anti-semitic; I'm just against anochronistic readings of history.

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: Seeker of God ]
Posted By: traveler

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 03:18 PM

Deleted by Abdur

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]
Posted By: traveler

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 03:25 PM

Quote
Originally posted by Seeker of God:
I find it an incredibly absurd reading of history that happens today, when people act like Christians killed Jews and it never happened the opposite way. I hope that's not what you too believe, Abdur. Saul of Tarsus was not the first Jew to condone the murder Christians for their beliefs, and he was far from the last.

I don't "hate" Jews, and I know few people who hate individual Jews; at most, the Church Fathers hated the [b]culture and religion
of the Jews, and used it as an example of unbelief. Gee, that kinda sounds like how the Jews used certain religions/cultures as bad examples. So what morally seperates anti-babylonianism (or anti-Egyptian, or...) and anti-semitism? Nothing, if the charges are true.

Btw, I have a Jewish Uncle, Aunt, and 2 cousins, and we have no problem getting along. I'm not anti-semitic; I'm just against anochronistic readings of history.

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: Seeker of God ][/b]


If you hate a person's
religion or culture, you hate him. If you hate Judaism, you hate the religion of Jesus and you hate....... .

If we are counting casualties I am sure the facts testify to the reality that many more Jews have been the victims of Christian and Muslim perfidy than the other-way-around.

Certainly, Judaism is the most creative and dynamic of contemporary monotheistic religions. As you might know, attending shul is a moving and intellectually stimulating experience since a rabbi's creativity is not inhibited by anachronistic dogmas. Judaism is a living religion and not what Christians and Muslims--by their dogmas--are forced to believe it is: a religious and cultural anachronism.

Judaism is dynamic.

Abdur

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]
Posted By: George Blaisdell

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 04:56 PM

Abdur writes:

Christians and Muslims do have something in common: hatred for Jews.

... Muslims and Christians ... despise the Jews... maybe ... out of fear.

Good grief, Abdur! Muslims can be legitimately, ant at that only in part, the radical part, called haters of Jews - And if you have been watching that Taliban training tape that they love to play over and over on the networks, that is a Christian Cross that is on the wall inside the building that the Molsem soldiers are practicing their assaults upon and pointing their weapons at.

Christians do not hate Jews, although I am sure that you can find some who do, and Jews do not hate Christians, although I am sure you can find some who do, and the same with Moslems... Orthodox Christians in the Arabic countries expect to often be hated, discriminated against, and persecuted in their Moslem countries, and they normally accept this as a general rule without complaining, although they do try to obtrain what legal remedies they can, scant though they often are. Their legal status is much like that of the southern Black person in the 50s - There is nothing more that really can be done that will not result in more violence and bloodshed, and they live very socially martyric lives. That is simply the way things are in most Moslem countries where Christians are allowed. They just try to get along as best they can, and live in a crucible hard for us to imagine.

Hatred and despising of peoples are not a part of Christianity except by abberrance, and this whole business of hating and despising of Jews by Christians - I mean, when is the last time you heard of a Christian killing a Jew because the Jew is a Jew and the Christian a Christian? That is nuts! You will hear of some Moslems doing that, on a regular and suicidal basis, but never Christians...

Why on earth would you lump these two groups together in the same bag you label "Jew Hating"? Have you read the [Jewish] author Bat Y'eor's works on Dhimitude and Islam - She finds her Christian brethren in Moslem countries in much the same boat, and worse, as the Jews of pre-WWII in Europe, and in almost identical stews in Moslem countries.

Does Israel have a policy of extracting Jews into Israel from oppressive Moslem states in the Middle East now? I remember they did that big one out of Africa... Christians have no "Israel" in the Middle East to which they can flee - They simply do their best with the oppressive regimes in which they find themselves - They are, I am told, a very practical peoples...

geo
Posted By: Columcille

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 05:34 PM

Quote
Originally posted by IrishJohan:


It is only for the anti-Semitism, nothing more. I know nothing of the Talmud so cannot take a position one way or the other about his comments concerning it. I also have expressed my own reservations about the Reflections document on my weblog.


Perhaps if you did read the Talmud, you would come away with a different perspective. It is littered with vile hatred for Jesus, the Theotokos and Christians in general. It also states that Jews are superior to every other race and that Gentiles are really dogs in human form, put here to serve the Jew.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmudx.htm

Here are some exerpts from the Talmud. The website looks like some radical Fundamentalist site, but the information may be useful.

Columcille
Posted By: Maximus

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 05:52 PM

Quote
Originally posted by George Blaisdell:


Does Israel have a policy of extracting Jews into Israel from oppressive Moslem states in the Middle East now? I remember they did that big one out of Africa... Christians have no "Israel" in the Middle East to which they can flee - They simply do their best with the oppressive regimes in which they find themselves - They are, I am told, a very practical peoples...

geo[/QB]



That was Ethiopia. A Christian state. Orthodox Christianity (of the Oriental and Ethopian stripe) being the state religion for close to 2000 years. And if memory serves me correct it was, the historical air lift, that occured when after, the Communist over through the State and Christian monarchy.

Many Ethiopian Jews were saved from starvation by the Israelie intervention.

On another note: It would probably be sensible to suspect that the Ethiopian Jews lived as "marginalized" citizens under the Christian State. That a glass ceiling did exist. It would also be note worthy to state that Ethiopia was not a Western Christian state, where one could fondly recall how Latin Christians were being the bad guys, if any bad guy existed.
Posted By: traveler

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 06:30 PM

It is true that both Christianity and Islam share a history of slaughter and butchery in the name of God.

The leadership of the Catholic Church have--couragously and publicly--acknowledged the long and violent history of Catholicism against all dissenters, and not just Jews.
That is integrity in action.

Now if only Muslim and Orthodox leaders had the integrity to do the same.

www.kanaan.org/israel5.htm

Caught up in the euphoria of Zohar and congenitally curious,

Abdur
Posted By: Nigula Qian Zishi

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 06:53 PM

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Abdur, when you first came here, you were a Muslim and then became a Protestant because to join an Apostolic Fiath would have made your relatives mad. From what I am hearing now, I am wondering, have you now become a Jew? The attacking of Christians and Muslims alike makes it appear that way. God Bless!

IC XC NIKA,
-Nik!
Posted By: Seeker of God

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 07:09 PM

Quote
If you hate a person's
religion or culture, you hate him. If you hate Judaism, you hate the religion of Jesus and you hate....... .


I'm afraid that's wrong on all counts. Christianity, and indeed the Church Fathers (it isn't just a modern cliche') teaches that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. If the culture (let's say, America) is sinful, we are to hate the aspects of it that are sinful. You cannot then infer that because I hate many aspects of American culture and might speak out against them that I hate Americans!!! Neither do I hate Jews. We also do not hate true Judaism, but only the Judaism that developed that led so many people astray. I do not despise, for instance, the Judaism of Mary, Joseph, Anna, and Joachim. I do hate the Judaism of the Talmud's (and if you don't think they hate Christianity, just read some of the early Jewish literature and what it said about Christianity. -- using your logic, the Jews must have hated Christians since they hated Christianity). I honor and respect the beliefs of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Quote
If we are counting casualties I am sure the facts testify to the reality that many more Jews have been the victims of Christian and Muslim perfidy than the other-way-around.


We aren't counting casualties, only pointing out that the Jewish people have no moral high ground; all sides went over the line from time to time if judged by modern standards.

Quote
Judaism is dynamic.


Which is interesting, because Christianity lives in a state of "Static Motion". They are "dynamic" in the sense that we deal with new contexts and problems; yet we are fixed in that we believe the same thing we did in the first century, for God does not change. If your intended jab is that we haven't changed much, I'll thank you kindly for the compliment smile
Posted By: traveler

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 08:45 PM

I'm attacking Christianity?

I'm just repeating what Catholic leaders--including the Pope--preach about the historical legacy of their own Church. Are they "attacking" Christianity?

Muslims and Orthodox must follow the example set by Catholics.

It is true that there has been a great deal of spiritual and philosophical cross-fertilization between Jews and Sufis through the centuries; therefore, conversion would be redundant. Many Ottoman Jews were members of Sufi brotherhoods while retaining their Judaism.(So were Ottoman Greeks....but...facts are dangerous and....well...better skip that). wink

Abdur

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]
Posted By: George Blaisdell

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/16/02 10:55 PM

Maximus writes:

<Originally posted by George Blaisdell:

>>I remember [Israel] did that big [extraction of oppressed Jews] out of Africa... <<<

>That was Ethiopia. A Christian state. Orthodox Christianity (of the Oriental and Ethopian stripe) being the state religion for close to 2000 years.<

I think you are right. But Ethiopia had a running problem with takeover by Moslems in the low country, and especially Marxist-Islamicists, back before the Communist abdication in Russia, and that it may have been this that prompted the extraction. Ethiopia is a poor country generally, and starvation is never far behind anything that happens there, and that starvation is an accepted Islamic rule of war in Africa, so that fear for the survival of their Jewish brothers may have been the reason for the airlift, and not just their societal marginalization in a state divided between Orthodox and Islamic rule... The revolutionaries in the low lands were a pretty vicious bunch...

>And if memory serves me correct it was, the historical air lift, that occured when after, the Communist over through the State and Christian monarchy.<

Could have been, but I think the Communists were allied with Islamic fundamentalists...

>Many Ethiopian Jews were saved from starvation by the Israelie intervention.<

Their survival was definitely at stake... And that would not have been a product of the Ethopian Orthodox State in the mountains...

>On another note: It would probably be sensible to suspect that the Ethiopian Jews lived as "marginalized" citizens under the Christian State. That a glass ceiling did exist.<

Maybe - I don't think so though, because of the marginalization of the whole society. And the Ethiopian Church services are the most like those of the Judaic Temple services of any of the Orthodox services - They keep the Ark - I really do not think you will find a lot of discrimination against Jews by Ethiopian Orthodox - But I could be wrong!

>It would also be note worthy to state that Ethiopia was not a Western Christian state<

Ya got THAT right!
smile
geo
Posted By: IrishJohan

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 01:13 AM

Quote
Originally posted by Columcille:


Perhaps if you did read the Talmud, you would come away with a different perspective. It is littered with vile hatred for Jesus, the Theotokos and Christians in general. It also states that Jews are superior to every other race and that Gentiles are really dogs in human form, put here to serve the Jew.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmudx.htm

Here are some exerpts from the Talmud. The website looks like some radical Fundamentalist site, but the information may be useful.


Great screenname you have, positively disgusting website you recommend. One of the "gems" among the nonsense there is the notorious Protocols of the Elders of Zion. No thanks.
Posted By: Mor Ephrem

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 02:01 AM

Quote
Originally posted by George Blaisdell:
Maybe - I don't think so though, because of the marginalization of the whole society. And the Ethiopian Church services are the most like those of the Judaic Temple services of any of the Orthodox services


What does one base this on? The prevalence of Jewish customs in their celebrations? Yuhannon rightly noted in another thread that the liturgies of the Syrian Churches "are the closest to the Hebrew Temple rituals of the 1st Century".
Posted By: George Blaisdell

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 03:08 AM

Mor Ephrem writes:

From geo:
>>And the Ethiopian Church services are the most like those of the Judaic Temple services of any of the Orthodox services<<

>What does one base this on? The prevalence of Jewish customs in their celebrations?<

I am not sure... I simply read it as a reported fact, and said it as if I knew what I was talking about. I am not even sure I know where I read it.

I was originally very taken with the idea of the Ethiopian Church, because it was the most insulated of all the early Christian Churches, lying virtually forgotten or ignored in the mountains of western Africa for over a thousand years with almost no outside influence. Iceland is a western parallel in culture - It still speaks the language of the Vikings, and lives their culture, although with disruptions from the last 200 years or so...

So that I thought "Maybe this Ethiopian Church is the least modified from the original churches." There is an Ethiopian mentioned in the NT [eunich], and they carved 12 Churches out of living rock by hand, some in the shape of Greek Crosses, and they have a level of piety that is normally only found elsewhere in monasticism, and at that, not all... And the article I read simply described their services as being very close, and indeed much more so than other EO churches, to the ancient temple worship of the Jews.

Sorry for being so dim on this one!

>Yuhannon rightly noted in another thread that the liturgies of the Syrian Churches "are the closest to the Hebrew Temple rituals of the 1st Century".<
I really do not know. Is the EO Antiochian Church one of these Syrian Churches? I sometimes have to remind myself that Christianity started out, in many important ways, as a Jewish sect...

geo
Posted By: traveler

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 04:54 AM

Ethiopia is located in east Africa, not "western Africa" as you write in your post.

Just a reminder. smile

Abdur
Posted By: Columcille

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 10:26 AM

IrishJohan,

As I stated, I am unfamiliar with the creators of that website. Nor do I claim to endorse their views on any given subject. This doesn't change what is stated in the Talmud, however. Just because you hate the site doesn't mean the information is wrong.

Columcille
Posted By: Jenny

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 11:53 AM

Quote
Originally posted by Columcille:
IrishJohan,

As I stated, I am unfamiliar with the creators of that website. Nor do I claim to endorse their views on any given subject. This doesn't change what is stated in the Talmud, however. Just because you hate the site doesn't mean the information is wrong.

Columcille



Please check out this site:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/

It refutes what the above site and other sites like it write about the Talmud. These kinds of sites take quotes out of context which completely distort their meaning. Some quotes are complete fabrications.

This page of the site:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/exp.html

...specifically deals with the site mentioned above (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmud.htm).

God Bless,

Jenny
Posted By: Joe T

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 12:02 PM

Irish Johan,

Boycott who?

Does Robert Sungenis speak on behalf of Byzantine Catholics? I don't remember our parish or eparchy getting any materials from him ... so ... how can we boycott someone we don't subscribe to?

If what R. S. writes bothers you, then you should contact him and those affiliated with him. He does have a bishop, right?

All this leads me to ask: Why do wish to take this concern to this particular forum?

[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: Joe T ]
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 01:37 PM

Dear George,

Yes, the Ethiopian Church has the fullest measure of Judaism in its liturgical practice and her theologians say so in conversations with other Oriental Orthodox and others.

They were, after all, Jews after St Makeda, the Queen of Sheba, and St David-Menelik ben Solomon introduce the Temple worship into Ethiopia at Axum.

They have also borrowed from their pagan and Muslim neighbours, although their Judaistic practices predominate.

What is most beautiful I find is their Tabots or Arks that are carved out of wood and named for a saint.

They venerate BOTH the Tablets of the Law AND the Cross as the bearers of the Shekinah or presence of the Lord.

They are the closest thing we have to the Apostolic Church of Jerusalem before 70 AD.

Next come the Syriac Churches of course.

Alex
Posted By: George Blaisdell

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 02:11 PM

Abdur writes:

>>>Ethiopia is located in east Africa, not "western Africa" as you write in your post.<<<

Well, at least I got the mountains part right! Funny - I remember visualizing it on the map, and then just wrote the wrong word. Thank-you for the correction... Old age needs a lot of it!

geo
Posted By: George Blaisdell

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 02:44 PM

Alex writes:

>>>What is most beautiful I find is their Tabots or Arks that are carved out of wood and named for a saint.<<<

Hey, Alex - I am unfamiliar with these - Do you find them in their churches? Or [I am really hoping!] do you have a url with pics???

>>>They venerate BOTH the Tablets of the Law AND the Cross as the bearers of the Shekinah or presence of the Lord.<<<

I know they claim the Tablets, that they still possess the presence of the Lord, and are the caretakers of them, of the Ark of the Covenant, but do they as well include the representation of them in their Churches, and have them incorporated into their, say, Liturgy? Or as a part of the daily prayer cycle of the Church, or is the guardianship something that their Church commemorates less frequently?

Or are you saying that they venerate both the Cross and the Tablets equally in their religious practices and services and prayers...? That, to me at least, would be really surprising...

geo
Posted By: Mor Ephrem

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 02:48 PM

Quote
Originally posted by George Blaisdell:
Is the EO Antiochian Church one of these Syrian Churches? I sometimes have to remind myself that Christianity started out, in many important ways, as a Jewish sect...



Dear George,

The EO Antiochian Church came from the Syrian Church, but when they ascribed to Chalcedon and all that jazz, they eventually adopted the Byzantine rite. I think that's how things went down.

Dear Alex,

Could you explain some more about the Ethiopians? I would naturally understand that because they have many, many Jewish customs that one might say they are the most Jewish or Judaistic or whatever. But I'm speaking liturgically.

Everything I've read (and I'll admit that I don't remember where) says that the Syrian rite is the closest to the rites of the Jewish Temple. I would've thought the liturgical rites of the Ethiopians were influenced, not just by their Jewish customs, but also by the tradition of the Copts. So in what ways is the Ethiopian Liturgy (and other rites, if you know) closer to the Temple ritual? Just curious. smile
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/17/02 02:58 PM

Dear Qathuliqa,

Yes, the Ethiopians are a spin-off from the Coptic Church, but they've developed many more traditions that really make them unique unto themselves.

For example, the focus of their liturgical worship is the Tabot, the carved wooded Ark of the Covenant in which are stored a replica of the tablets of the law. They name this after St Michael etc. and carry it around the Church and perform their liturgical dance before it, as did David.

They have the liturgical role of the debtera or scribe taken directly from the scribes of the Temple of Solomon.

They claim seven covenants, six from the Old Testament and of course that of Christ in the New (Covenant of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Melchizedek, Moses and one other).

I think it is their veneration of the Tabot or Ark that sets their liturgical tradition in the closest possible relation to the worship of the Temple in Jerusalem.

Alex
Posted By: Seeker of God

Re: Boycott of Robert Sungenis & CAI - 09/22/02 03:13 AM

I just found this article today and thought I'd post it here. It deals with antisemitism and (Russian) Orthodoxy, discusses some of the current flawed theological beliefs (e.g., that you can't be anti-Judaism without being anti-semitic), and essentially gives the Orthodox position on Jews, Gentiles, Israel (not the nation), and the Church. http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/jewish_1.html
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