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Posted By: Westerner Gone East Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/05/03 06:32 AM
On a website listing monasteries in America, I came across a jurisdiction I have never before heard of, the "Holy Orthodox Church of North America." Is this body canonical, or is one of those "True Orthodox" groups? I was curious.
Not to be confused with the canonical Orthodox Church in America.
Posted By: Axios Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/05/03 04:53 PM
Non-canonical, my friend.

Axios
Posted By: Mexican Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/05/03 07:58 PM
The HOCNA is a non-canonical jurisdicion which separated from the ROCOR because it was too liberal!

It-s an ultra-conservative, traditionalist old calendarist, schismatic group which preaches that the EP is a Mason, that the Pope is the Antichrist, that sacraments outside HOCNA could be devoid of grace because of the Calendar stuff, and there are a lot of protestant converts there. They think they-re the only ones who posess thre absolute truth and the true Orthodox faith. eek
Posted By: Jenny Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/05/03 08:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Snoopy:
The HOCNA is a non-canonical jurisdicion which separated from the ROCOR because it was too liberal!

It-s an ultra-conservative, traditionalist old calendarist, schismatic group which preaches that the EP is a Mason, that the Pope is the Antichrist, that sacraments outside HOCNA could be devoid of grace because of the Calendar stuff, and there are a lot of protestant converts there. They think they-re the only ones who posess thre absolute truth and the true Orthodox faith. eek
Is the ROCOR non-canonical? I was thinking of going to an ROCOR church for Divine Liturgy tomorrow morning.

Jenny
Posted By: Mexican Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/05/03 11:04 PM
From what I know there's no reason to believe the ROCOR is a non-canonical Church in stricto sensu, since it's in communion with the Patriarchate of Jerusalem and the Church of Serbia, but its status is irregular.

After the Communist Revolution in Russia, part of the Russian Imperial clergy had to emigrate and formed a Synod in the exile. The exiled hierarchy thought that as the communists had taken control of the local hierarchy it was not possible to trust them anymore, so they did not recognize the appointment of Metropolitan Sergius as Patriarch in Russia.

The later leaders of the ROCOR took a way different and oposed to the idea of St. John Maximovitch and other Russian hierarchs in the exile and rejected all contacts with Western Christians and especially Ecumenism. At the beggining the exiled ROCOR Synod appeared as a reaction against the abuses of communism and communist infiltration in the Church, but later their rejection of Sergianism (coperation with Soviet State) became an excuse to avoid unity with World Orthodoxy. To them the Ecumenical Patriarchate has been infiltrated by freemasonry and heresy, and the rest of the Churches by Sergianism. They also departed from Orthodox teachings by re-baptizing Catholics and re-chrismating Orthodox from other jurisdictions) who join the ROCOR.

Through the Patriarchates of Serbia and Jerusalem there was a possibility of a mediation in order to re-incorporate the ROCOR to the rest of the canonical Patriarchates. The MP even accepted to recognize their autonomous hierarchy and to stay as a free church without any tides with the Russian Patriarchate in Moscow. However, the ROCOR hierarchy prefered to establish contacts with Old Calendarist and Traditionalist schismatic groups from Greece (the Synod of Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos), Bulgaria, Romania and other smaller disident communities in European countries.

As well as some of the MP leaders cooperated with the Soviet Communist State, the exiled ROCOR hierarchy supported the interests of Russian aristocrats and defend a pink fairy tale image of the Russian Empire ignoring the abuses and cruelty of the Russian Czars.
Posted By: Administrator Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/06/03 01:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Jenny:
Is the ROCOR non-canonical? I was thinking of going to an ROCOR church for Divine Liturgy tomorrow morning.
Jenny,

Go. There are no problems with ROCOR. Snoopy’s explanation is good but the shorter version is that ROCOR separated from the Moscow Patriarchate because the MP was communist controlled and has never mended the rift. The issues are pretty complex. Within canonical Orthodoxy ROCOR is considered to be canonical but of irregular status because of the continuing rift.

See The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia by Fr. Ron Roberson for more information.

Please tell us the details of your visit.

Admin
Posted By: Axios Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/06/03 01:40 PM
Jenny,

The situation between ROCOR and the rest of Orthodoxy is an internal matter. It should not trouble any Catholic from being a guest.

Axios
Posted By: Jenny Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/07/03 11:13 AM
Thanks to everyone for their replies. I did go. I'll start a new thread in order to post my thoughts and questions. smile
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/07/03 03:16 PM
Dear Axios,

There are mainstream Orthodox Churches in Canada that require Chrismation in order to be received from ROCOR, is that not correct?

I as a Ukrainian Catholic can be received into the Constantinopolitan Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada via a simple confession and profession of the Orthodox faith.

Not so if I were from ROCOR!

And even if mainstream Orthodoxy does recognize the "irregular canonicity" of ROCOR - ROCOR simply recognizes much of world Orthodoxy as "irregular" period, does it not?

If communion is not reciprocated, it is no communion in fact, according to Orthodox ecclesiology - correct?

Alex
Posted By: Diak Re: Orthodox jurisdiction - 04/07/03 04:06 PM
I think I disagree with the ROCOR issue as an "internal matter". With issues of excommunication and sacraments, these are also visible "external" signs of communion and unity.
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