your life would be like if it were very difficult to remain a Catholic or Orthodox Christian? Where would you see yourself?

This is not a flip question and it is not something that has an easy answer. If you've got an easy answer, you either don't see the potential for active persecution out there or you're telling yourself it can't happen in the United States or other Western countries.

Reread the British thread about thought control.

Take a look at the conditions people endured under militant atheism.

Understand that the Bible is considered hate speech in certain of its verses in some Western countries at this writing.

Look at the annual attempts to censor Christmas and the discouragement of Christian students in public schools over various issues while it is okay to have them recite Muslim prayers and study the Quaran in some places in the name of "diversity."

BOB

It is not about to remain Catholic or Orthodox Christian, it is about to remain with Christ.

If I would have to confront the power of darkness, I would pray to remain with Christ, to remain sane in mind. In Romania there is a dark past, communism etc. I would choose to die, may Christ have mercy upon my sinful soul.

Brother Bob, people, communism was violent and aggressive, but what I see coming from Western world is much worse. In EU etc there is a project in which they want to ban any religious expression in pubic, they want that we have chips and other control things. They attack the life by any means.

"The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God "
They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;
There is no one who does good.
The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there are any who understand,
Who seek after God.
They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one..."

I'm puzzled. Romania is assuredly no paradise, but why would I choose to die if I lived there?

Fr. Serge

It seems that I was severely misunderstood.

I see it coming much sooner than the majority of people do, and not just from the government. There is a rapidly growing group of people within the US who are becoming militantly anti-Christian. Just visiting various online forums, reading letters to newspapers etc, it becomes abundantly clear how much hatred there is for Christianity. How soon before we see a repeat of what occured in Spain in the first 3 decades of the 20th century, when Satanic mobs firebombed churches, and murdered priests and nuns in broad daylight.

I too think that unless we do something about it, this could happen sooner than we think. Being at a secular school has shown me the kind of animosity people hold for Christianity, particularly Catholicism. Most of it, I believe, is due to their ignorance. I think the best thing we can do is to educate our children and instill the faith in them so that, when challenged, we can all stand up and say "no you're wrong, that isn't what the church teaches or believes." Let's forget about being PC and start living BC-biblically correct.

I believe that Mark Steyn is correct when he writes that America is the last least hope. When we fall we must stand and face the persecution or move to Africa, Asia, or South America. (Or maybe Texas).

CDL

So move to Ireland!

Fr. Serge

Easy to do? I'm still looking for Right of Return paperwork (like the Palestinians are bucking for), but have yet to find it.

Sadly thats all ready happening not on that massive of a scale of course but preists and nuns are being killed churches burning. (Weather thats arson or actual accidents I don't know.)

I understood Marian.

He was saying that if he had to choose life outside of the Eucharist, he would still choose Christ.

Philippians 1
20
My eager expectation and hope is that I shall not be put to shame in any way, but that with all boldness, now as always, Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death.
21
For to me life is Christ, and death is gain.
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/philippians/philippians1.htm

"What do you think your life would be like if it were very difficult to remain a Catholic or Orthodox Christian? Where would you see yourself?"

The world is one scary place BOB. I try not to dwell on it too much for if I do I could be lost in despair.

I think it is very difficult to live the life now. Not just the interior life, but life for a young family in a community can be tough. The ridicule is very intense at times. Truly living the life presents many strained relationships in the extended family, community, sometimes within the Church herself. Protecting the youth is one tough job; with GOD'S help we can do anything. Lord have mercy.

When it gets bad enough (and I do believe those days are coming) we celebrate secretly, even if it comes to celebrating within the family unit alone. Whatever it takes we do it. If it comes down to death, then we will be prepared for that, may the Blessed Mother look after her children. The only sure answer I have is to stay close to the Mother of GOD, refuge of sinners.

What do I think it will be like in the future, more of the same, just much more intense. GOD is already preparing a people for the days ahead....The bright spot that I do focus on is the climax of the battle, when GOD will rise up the most wonderful Saints. St Louis de Montfort gives us a description of the Saints of the latter times in the book, True Devotion to Mary:

"They will carry the gold of love in their heart, the frankincense of prayer in their mind and the myrrh of mortification in their body. They will bring to the poor and lowly everywhere the sweet fragrance of Jesus, but they will bring the odour of death to the great, the rich and the proud of this world.

57. They will be like thunder-clouds flying through the air at the slightest breath of the Holy Spirit. Attached to nothing, surprised at nothing, troubled at nothing, they will shower down the rain of God's word and of eternal life. They will thunder against sin, they will storm against the world, they will strike down the devil and his followers and for life and for death, they will pierce through and through with the two-edged sword of God's word all those against whom they are sent by Almighty God."

I see hostility right in my own home towards Catholicism. My dear wife doesn't understand, nor does she make an attempt to. My work is having a banquet and the Bishop will be there. She was concerned that we might start saying "Hail Mary" and she'd be left just sitting there. I need a severe move of the Lord on my wife's heart. Lord give me strength to endure....

I will offer prayers for this intention.

I wonder if your best witness to your wife right now would not be having gainful, full time employment that supports your family. That may seem a bit harsh, and I truly understand where you are coming from. However, God has given you a wonderful wife, and two precious little ones, that my dear brother is your first responsibility. God is a God of order. He wants us to love him and give our all for him, but, you as husband, father, and head of household, have the work of provision - after all, isn't that what God did for us first - he made provision. Possibly you can do this work with the radio station - that you are doing now - as a second job.

Even good things, or things that seem to be good, are not always what God desires for us at a given point in time. I would suggest that you get with your priest and be totally honest with him about your situation and see what he recommends you do.

Read 1John 4, and ask what is it that is making you afraid to work in the world. Maybe that is where you witness needs to be. God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of boldness, love, and compassion that needs to be taken to a hurting world. http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1john/1john4.htm

Has your being Catholic come about since your marriage, or were you an inactive Catholic when you got married? It sounds like this is all something 'new' to your wife. She is pregnant, under financial duress, working full time, and caring for another child, plus a home, and husband. Stop and take notice, no wonder she is upset.

Don't force religion on her, but love her into the Catholic Church. In her eyes right now, one of the best ways you can do that and show her God's love is through provision for your family.

God bless you!

Dear Ignatius,

I apologize if my comments seem brash, they were not meant that way, though it definatly comes across so. My kids are your age , I guess I was talking like a mom, sorry. I would not have said it much differently to my sons.

My dad is a WWII vet, now 83, and only in the last few years has he been diagnosed with Post Tramatic Stress from WWII. If there is a VA center around you, consider going in and checking it out.

Your faith will sustain you, but sometimes, just sometimes we need the help of counselors and discussion groups. You have tread in places that your wife can only imagine. Your job with ordinance was an unbeliveable job, surely not something she - as a young wife can grasp. I know myself - as a VietNam era vet - had to struggle with things seeing up close and personal the results of being in Nam did to our guys.

Anyway, just a suggestion.
God bless you!
Pani Rose

Bob,

I really don't see a persecution coming. I used to think that way, a few years ago, because of abortion and the other social changes. But the sky hasn't fallen, and life is improving in many ways.

Besides, I don't see the kind of fear and hatred that motivated the 20th century persecutions in Mexico and Eastern Europe and in former European colonies. Those were in response to the Church and State being too close and too corrupt, or too closely associated with colonialism (respectively).

In America, I don't see that. In America, I see a lot of people being upset with the sins of religion --corruption and so on. But, significantly, a lot of people still believe in religion itself as well as their own specific religion.

Instead, what is changing is the framework of society. It's becoming more secular. And that means that religious people won't automatically see their views in the laws or in the popular culture; indeed, they will sometimes see the opposite.

In a way, though, I think that improves religion. That makes religion into something that people must choose, instead of something that people practice because everyone else is doing it.

What is most sad, and worrisome, to me is when people stop caring at all about religion. That is increasing, and that is the main issue that concerns me.

-- John

Interesting and well taken points, John... I hope that you are right about not fearing a persecution of Christians!

Perhaps religion and religious rights will not be so taken for granted anymore in the new America...Perhaps we will now appreciate what we have.

You mention society being more secular and religion not reflected in laws, but all religions share some basic beliefs which are reflected in laws...so this 'secularity', as it were, is what exactly? Is it paganism all over again? Is it also a religion of sorts--the religion of 'anti-God', 'pro-feel good', 'pro-self', and/or 'anti-religion'?!?

Ofcourse baby boomer and older Americans will always lament the homogenous Christian morals and values of a bygone America that they once knew..It was a much easier environment to grow up in and to raise your children in. No fears of anything inappropriate or contrary to Judeo-Christianity to worry about...

In the meantime though, imho, we do need to be on our guard, because people *do* get ostracized for not going along with or for speaking out with Christian values against what is politically correct in many venues. That can easily lead to persecution of various sorts...(not necessarily being thrown into a gulag or being sent to the guillotine...)

I am happy when there is a public backlash to that--it helps keep things from the scales being tipped one way (from being too morally liberal), it keeps discussions more open and more objective; it shows that there can be more than one way to think...for instance: Donald Trump defending and giving support to Miss California and her viewpoints regarding gay marriage in a press conference; Bill O'Reilly on his show about many topics (not all); Bill O'Donahue of the Catholic League about many topics; etc...

I think this is a healthy thing for our present society, despite how a person votes or how he categorizes himself politically. Balance is always a good thing, and something which we should all strive for as a society, as individuals, and as Christians (hard though it sometimes can be in the case of balancing the secular with the spiritual).

All in all, these are confusing and stressful times for most Christians of traditional convictions.

In Christ,
Alice

The Church and our faith grows when it is persecuted.

Interesting points, Alice.

-- John

I agree with you theopan! I think if you asked me this question just a year ago I might have said I don't think Christians will ever been persecuted, this is the United States. Well, I believe that it is as possible as another major terrorist attack on the US soil is(which I never thought was possible). I see the current trend in secular law which could effect our religious law. The Constitution could be amended to require absolute equal rights for everyone in every situation. Ex. Homosexuals must be allowed to be married even in churches , homosexuals transgenders people must be allowed to be priests and bishops, bishops must have the opportunity to be both man and woman and married and or transgendered, congregations must be allowed to democratically control their church buildings. And over time can dictate to the Churches what is offensive and must be changed in their beliefs. In short Christianity can be legally picked apart and we could get in legal trouble for not following the law. This type of persecution is already starting in England. I seriously don't think its impossible to happen here!

I would be difficult to live in a culture that persecuted Christians. Way more difficult for my daughter than myself. I can put up with the looks and comments and even legal trouble but I really don't want my child to go through any of that! It would be difficult but can be done.

There is another futuristic trend that may save Christianity here in America. The Hispanic population will no doubt become the majority and at least now they are still pretty heavily Christian. However in W. Europe(unless they start having children) they will be populated by Muslims. So, religious people may be persecuted for a while but then those countries may become religious again. Only God really knows! The future can be a difficult thing to figure out.

Let's get a grip, folks. We most of us belong to Churches that have suffered real persecution, sometimes for centuries: priests, bishops and monastics murdered; imprisoned, churches, schools and monasteries closed, destroyed or desecrated; worship in public banned under penalty of law; Christians reduced to servile status living at the sufferance of non-Christians. Listen to yourselves, worrying each other silly over the nasty looks you might get, the laws that might be passed, the things that people might say about you. That's not persecution, folks. It's not even close. Pray you never discover what real persecution is--in fact, that precisely what you are doing when you say the Lord's Prayer, for "Lead us not into temptation" is more accurately translated as "Put us not to the test"--and that is what real persecution is, a test, where the question is "Who do you say I am?", and the answer determines your fate for all eternity.

Strongly put, and well said.

-- John

Coming again to the question of my brother in Christ, I think there is a consistent potential for active persecution.

And I think that America is menaced as well, not only Europe. The evil has many forms. What if someday there will be a law forbidding wearing a cross in public, making the sign of cross in public, talking about Christ in public [religious harassment] etc? If so and you wear a cross and you have a job and your employer puts you off, or you get a financial penalty for breaking such a law, and you must choose, what will you do?

History is no more than men who lived their lives at their time. We now must make our own choices.

Serge, I guess we have to politely disagree on this.

First, let me ask, if a government passes a law, or series of laws that directly contradict a belief and or a religious law, religious rite or ceremony and that Christians would then have to perform their rites in secret, is that not religious oppression?

I say that persecution doesn't have to be drastic or physically spectacular. Being put in jail for you beliefs is persecution, being dictated by the government what your ceremonies should include or not include is oppression(a precursor to persecution) and I don't think that's impossible anymore!
I agree with you notion that we should pray that we don't get put to the test! I believe that we must stop the persecution when its "soft" and never allow it get to the point of "hard" persecution(the test)! The greatest damage we can do to our religion is "indifference". Now, there is no debate at all that all of us here care deeply about God and our religion , but in a country and a western culture that is increasingly becoming indifferent to religion I think it would be wrong to stand by and allow the laws of this country to be altered to allow for legal persecution!

By the way we are still dealing in a hypothetical, ok so lets all understand we are not saying this is happening right now or that it will happen tomorrow, just ideas!

Marian, Dear Brother, that is already happened here. People have been persecuted for it, let go from their jobs, told they can't wear one in school. However, the lawsuits have ensude and they have won the victory to wear their cross. These battles are truly increasing in number. God have mercy on us all.

Nothing good can come out of a country that is becoming increasingly more secular.

Yes, I know that what Pani Rose is saying to be quite true.

Fortunately there are legal teams out there comprised of Evangelical Christians who have been fighting these types of religious oppressions over the years. We just don't hear about it in the mainstream media.

Alice