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Baghdad (AsiaNews) Get rid of the cross or we will burn your Churches. This is the threat aimed at the Chaldean Church of Sts Peter and Paul, located in the ancient Christian quarter of Baghdad, Dora. Local sources say an unknown armed Islamic group is behind the threats which are inseminating terror in the capital. The Arab website Ankawa.com and Aina news agency speak of a campaign of persecution in act in the area. Even Mosul, a Sunni stronghold, the Christian presence is being gravely threatened.

Lord Jesus please protect your people who are called by your name!
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=9026&size=A

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I'd say in less than 10 years the same things will be happening in the United States. And it won't just be the work of Islamic radicals. In the last few years I've spoken with so many college age men and women who openly despise Christianity and who characterize our faith as 2000 years of murder and oppression, that I truly believe it's only a matter of time before we see a repeat of Spain in the 1930's.

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I just wonder. These Scriptures come to mind when I read these things. I use to think it meant the world and it may well be, but more and more it seems like a 'desolation' is taking place right there where it all began.

Luke 23:
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The verdict of Pilate was that their demand should be granted.
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So he released the man who had been imprisoned for rebellion and murder, for whom they asked, and he handed Jesus over to them to deal with as they wished.
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4 As they led him away they took hold of a certain Simon, a Cyrenian, who was coming in from the country; and after laying the cross on him, they made him carry it behind Jesus.
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A large crowd of people followed Jesus, including many women who mourned and lamented him.
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Jesus turned to them and said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep instead for yourselves and for your children,
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for indeed, the days are coming when people will say, 'Blessed are the barren, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed.'
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At that time people will say to the mountains, 'Fall upon us!' and to the hills, 'Cover us!'
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for if these things are done when the wood is green what will happen when it is dry?"



Luke 13:
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"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were unwilling!
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Behold, your house will be abandoned. (But) I tell you, you will not see me until (the time comes when) you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

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Let us glory in the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.
may we lift it high and bodly proclaim our faith in the risen
Saviour.
Stephanos I

Last edited by Stephanos I; 04/18/07 03:50 PM.
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CHRIST IS RISEN!

I may sound uncharitable, aspecially during this time right after Pascha, but I WILL say that many of our Holy Orthodox Saint Fathers including one of my favorites ST. Alexander Nevskij were warrior monks.

We are not called to be wimps for the Christ, we need to defend our Faith, our people, our Holy Churches and our familys not only with our Prayers, but with our Swords.

I am a firm believer that Islam is not worshiping the same God, in fact just the opposite they are worshiping the dark prince of this world. Just read their "holy quran" and their hadiths. It is sickening.

If we close are eyes to the horrors they do in the name of their allah, if we pretend that they are worshiping the same God, we are as guilty as they are.

no offense to anyone, but when we say Lord Jesus Protect our brothers and sisters, what I wonder about is when I stand before the face of the Lord, will he ask me. <BORISLAV, YOU CALLED YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN AND YET AS YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS WERE OPRESSED, KILLED, DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, YOU DID NOTHING?>




Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 04/18/07 04:17 PM.
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Get rid of the cross or we will burn your Churches? Sounds like the sort of thing that Constantine Pobiedonostsev told the Old Ritualists - the State Church convinced the government not to permit them to display the Cross outside their places of worship.

Fr. Serge

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Quote

Get rid of the cross or we will burn your Churches? Sounds like the sort of thing that Constantine Pobiedonostsev told the Old Ritualists - the State Church convinced the government not to permit them to display the Cross outside their places of worship.


Father, please don't take this as an offense, but comparing the Russian Orthodox Church to these Islamic militants is hardly appropriate.

Protopop Avakum used to bless his followers to set themselves on fire.

Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 04/18/07 04:22 PM.
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Let God arise and His enemies be scattered!

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I do believe we have the right to defend ourselves (I'm not a pacifist), but I do hope that after 20+ centuries we've realized violence in the name of the cross is not a good thing. The Papacy seems to be a leader on that front.

Defending ourselves may be necessary, but war certainly is not holy.

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While stationed in Iraq I always wondered why the US presence there completely ignored the existence of the indigenous Christians. Once I asked the RC chaplain at Abu Ghraib about this and said he should maybe invite a Chaldean priest sometime but got a blank stare. If the West continues to ignore the sufferings of the Iraqi Christians then who can they turn to?

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Dear Borislav,

One might well ask why the Russian Orthodox Church resorted to such methods that could cause someone to make an unflattering comparison.

Have you a reference for Protopop Avakum blessing someone to commit fire suicide?

Fr. Serge

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Dear AMM,

I am not calling for "holy war", I was simply saying that sometimes enough is enough and we need to defend ourselves and our brothers and sisters in Christ as well as others who are opressed using military means.


Father Serge,

One might ask why you never pass up the chance to take a shot at the Russian Orthodox Church. Do you harbor such a deep hatred for the Russian people or the Russian Church?

Believe me, it is far easier to list 'such methods' employed by the Catholic Church of which you are a part of, yet this is not what this thread is about.

It is about our brothers and sisters suffering in Islamic countries, so I find the attack on the Russian Church insulting, out of place and not well founded.

If you would like to learn more about the Blessing for self burning perhaps you should watch this part of the series Zemnoe I Nebesnoe.
Link below. It is equally critical of both Nikon and Avakum, but it does talk about the horrible self burnings by the Old Believers, I am sure you can understand Russian.


http://www.tvspas.ru/www/Video-wmv/films/%C7%E5%EC%ED%EE%E5%20%E8%20%ED%E5%E1%E5%F1%ED%EE%E5%20-%206-%FF%20%F1%E5%F0%E8%FF.wmv

you need to save this file to your HD before you can watch it.

As a Ukrainian and an Orthodox Christian, i consider the Russians to be brothers and sisters in Christ, and although I do not always agree with MP(to which I do not belong), never the less I have the utmost respect for them.



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Originally Posted by Subdeacon Borislav
Dear AMM,

I am not calling for "holy war", I as simply saying that sometimes enough is enough and we need to defend ourselves and our brothers and sisters in Christ as well as others who are opressed using military means


Don't worry, my comments were not directed at you(or anyone else).

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Just making sure we're on the same page smile

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Reverend Subdeacon Borislav,
I did not realize that my exulatation of the Most Holy Cross was an indication that we "should close our eyes" to the plight of Christians. Hardly. I think the West needs to wake up to the clear and present danger before we find ourselves with the Muslim hoards outside the gates of Vienna again. Or whatever gate it may be.
We are Christians and we should pray for and desire peace, but at the same time we should not be naive.
There are many in our society who are deluded. Just leave them alone and they wont harm us. Their intent is the destruction of Christianity and the West.

Stephanos I

PS And by that I do not intend to malign those Muslims who are of good will.

Last edited by Stephanos I; 04/18/07 05:42 PM.
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