Defending the Catholic faith with my friend

You are not logged in. [Log In] www.byzcath.org » Forums » General Discussion Forums » 3. Parish Life and Evangelization » Defending the Catholic faith with my friend

Site Links

ByzCath.org Home
Latest News
Liturgical Calendar
Lectionary

Newest Members

wpk, Keithg29, brick22, BensGal, Lady Byzantine, Eli Akim, Kirk, Jerzy, Rusyn53, Lou, evergreen, old orthodox, PresJuliana, Heracleides, Addai
3135 Registered Users

Who's Online

14 registered (Mykhayl, Benedictine, Addai, fr. Jim, Two Lungs, Ray S., Athanasius The L, Etnick, tjm199, 5 invisible) and 213 anonymous users online.

details

Private Forums

The Byzantine Forum also hosts these private forums: The Deacon’s Door (for deacons and deacon candidates and their wives), the Orthodox Christian Studies Forum (for currently enrolled students only of the distance education programs offered by the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America) and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church Clergy Forum (for clergy, religious, and clergy wives of that Church). Contact an administrator for access.

Latest Photo

Forum Stats

3135 Members
20 Forums
21737 Topics
284047 Posts

Max Online: 1087 @ 07/16/07 01:09 PM

Page 1 of 1

Topic Options

#245880 - 07/20/07 02:23 PM Defending the Catholic faith with my friend
lanceg lanceg Member Registered: 08/19/06 Posts: 690 Loc: Minneapolis	Dear Friends, I sent out an e-mail to some friends letting them know I was going to be on the radio with my fellow parishioner discussing the Dormition coming up in August. An evangelical friend of mine, wrote me a letter very critical of our Marian beliefs. HE is not an anti-Catholic but he was somewhat terse, though very well intentioned. Here is the message I replied with: ------------------------------------------------------ In the spirit of dialog, I want to make the following points, in a spirit of dialog, love, and fearlessness: 1) The Protestant movement is only 500 years old- which does not make them wrong or irrelevant, but 1500 years of Christianity went on before they came on the scene. 2) Most of what we believe as Catholics and Orthodox we have believed since the time of the Apostles- consequently, most people in the history of Christianity have believed what we believe. 3) These beliefs are very relevant, the relate to the Nature of Christ and to the Church. I can give some examples the next time we see each other, but one easy one is the Doctrine that Mary is the Mother of God (Theotokos; see Luke 1:43; the Council of Ephesus 431). It is an extension of Christology, and underscores the unity of divine and human natures in His Person. 4) There is not one single scripture verse that teaches Sola Scriptura- the idea that only traditions found specifically in the bible are to be accepted. Some apostolic teachings have been handed down orally and through the traditions and liturgy of the Church, though the Bible is the primary basis of revelation, the Word of God in Written form. Jesus does condemn the corrupt tradition of the Pharisees, but St. Paul admonishes us to obey his teaching, whether by word or letter, and the traditions handed down from the apostles to the Churches. 5) The Catholic-Orthodox Church gave us the Bible. We would not know which books went in the bible without the bishops and faith communities of the early church. The same people who gave us the bible gave us Holy traditions and liturgy that we practice today. Finally, I not only believe in the Catholic Church's teaching, but they put their money where their mouth is. I have no health insurance right now; the state won't even give it to me; only the Sisters of St. Joseph with their St. Mary's health clinics are giving me health insurance. Faith without works is dead. Blessings and peace, and do not ever shrink back from challenging me, you are an inspiration in my life. and I can accept any criticism of the Catholic faith, because I am so confident of its truth. We also have blood of martyrs, the seed of the Church, to seal the authenticity of our faith. - Lance
Top

#245900 - 07/20/07 03:10 PM Re: Defending the Catholic faith with my friend [Re: lanceg]
tjm199 tjm199 Member Registered: 04/02/04 Posts: 442 Loc: State College, PA	Soungs good to me. I think the respectful tone is quite appropriate, especially if what he said wasn't made in the same tone. Tim
Top

#245902 - 07/20/07 03:20 PM Re: Defending the Catholic faith with my friend [Re: tjm199]
Pani Rose Pani Rose Member Registered: 11/06/01 Posts: 7516 Loc: Irondale,AL	As our grand baby would say 'good job!' _________________________ Pani Rose Lord Jesus Christ Son of the Living God have mercy on me a sinner
Top

#249759 - 08/18/07 07:42 PM Re: Defending the Catholic faith with my friend [Re: Pani Rose]
Jolly Jolly Junior Member Registered: 07/11/07 Posts: 5 Loc: Georgia, USA	Well said
Top

#287559 - 04/28/08 10:24 PM Re: Defending the Catholic faith with my friend [Re: lanceg]
Addai Addai Junior Member Registered: 04/26/08 Posts: 26 Loc: Silicon Valley, California	Originally Posted By: lanceg 5) The Catholic-Orthodox Church gave us the Bible. We would not know which books went in the bible without the bishops and faith communities of the early church. The same people who gave us the bible gave us Holy traditions and liturgy that we practice today. - Lance Here are some materials I have used on this subject. An Outline of the Catholic Case Against Sola Scriptura ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- originally posted 06-06-96 on James White's Sola Scriptura mailing list DEFINITION of SS given by Greg Krehbiel that I will use: "Scripture is the only infallible rule for faith and practice" -- hence, all "churches" and any "traditions" (today) are fallible. COROLLARY (and necessary implication) of SS : The only interpretation of Scripture that is binding on the Christian conscience is that of the individual exegete (assuming normal adult intelligence) since all "churches" and any "traditions" are fallible. I. SS is UNBIBLICAL (1) there is no direct teaching of SS in Scripture (OT or NT) (a) although possibly implied by 2 Tim 3:15-17; 1 Cor 4:6; etc) (b ) denied by 1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15; 2 Tim 1:13-14; 2:2; etc) (2) there is no statement that apostolic oral revelation would cease to be a rule of faith (was argued it has in fact "passed away") (3) or at least SS is "non-biblical" since the NT is silent about the "passing away" of the apostolic oral revelation (cf. Matt 24:35; Acts 2:42; 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Pet 1:25; 2 Pet 3:2; etc) II. SS is UNHISTORICAL (1) the early Church (1st century) functioned without the NT -- this is granted -- all special revelation was oral from Christ to His apostles to the early Christians -- no written besides OT (2) even after NT was written the Church functioned without complete NT canon (various books were questioned or not known or not included in some canon lists in the early centuries) (3) the Church Fathers denied SS -- this is challenged by such Protestant apologists as James White and William Webster (4) the Church councils and early Creeds do not mention SS -- ("I [We] believe in one holy catholic apostolic Church" rather than "I believe in the one holy Scripture alone") (5) Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox (all "ancient" Churches that trace back through apostolic succession) deny SS today III. SS is ILLOGICAL (or incoherent) (1) Scripture alone does not teach "Scripture alone" (see I. above) (2) Scripture alone can't tell us what "Scripture" is (NT canon) (a) to argue from "fallible knowledge" and historical testimony directly to inspired Scripture is not possible by reason -- Protestants must simply accept this "by faith alone" (b ) to argue from "fallible knowledge" and historical testimony to an infallible Church founded by Christ and protected from error by the Holy Spirit according to Christ's promises -- which same Church ultimately decided the canon -- THEN to inspired Scripture is reasonable (Catholic solution) (c) or Scripture is "a fallible collection of infallible books" (R.C. Sproul's "solution" to incoherency problem -- but how does he know these books are inspired if "fallible" canon?) (3) Scripture alone can't resolve the differences in OT canon (4) Scripture alone -- being an inanimate object -- can't make any infallible and binding decisions concerning either canon or any (mis)interpretation -- Scripture is simply assumed by definition to be "self-interpreting" and "self-authenticating" without need of any infallible Church -- this begs two important questions (a) How do I know the Bible IS the Word of God? (b ) How do I know MY interpretation of Scripture is correct? (5) Scripture alone can't function as the sole rule of faith for a Christian populace that was entirely illiterate and Bibles were inaccessible before the age of printing (ante 1450 AD) IV. SS is INCONSISTENT (1) the Church recognized the NT canon through "tradition" alone and every Protestant today is the beneficiary of that tradition (2) to argue the "infallibility of God's special providence" (Eric Svendsen) allowed the Church to recognize the NT canon can't be limited to just the canon -- i.e. the same providence of God should protect the Church in general from officially teaching error since she is guided by the "Spirit of truth" (Jn 16:13) (3) everyone has a "tradition" (although Protestants insist it is fallible) when interpreting Scripture so the question is which tradition should one use and why? (4) also inconsistent to attack the beliefs of that very Catholic Church that gave us the Bible -- I would argue of course that the Catholic Church of 400 AD is the same Church of 1996 AD V. SS is IMPROBABLE -- follows directly from II. 3) to 5) above VI. SS is UNWORKABLE (and impractical) (1) the fact of over 20,000 Protestant denominations and sects in contrast to the unity of faith (Eph 4:5) in the Catholic Church (2) Scripture alone is not perspicuous enough (cf. 2 Peter 3:16) to resolve major doctrinal disputes or moral teachings (3) how can the individual Christian know today who is right? (4) SS implies nobody is bound to any interpretation but their own since all "churches" and any "traditions" are fallible (5) each individual Christian is fallible but the historic Christian and Catholic solution is the Magisterium that teaches God's Word infallibly (e.g. in Ecumenical Councils) -- does it really work? Much more could be said but this is simply a brief statement outlining the Catholic (or Orthodox) case. All of these points are fully explored and documented in the massive book by Robert Sungenis, Not By Scripture Alone : A Catholic Critique of the Protestant Doctrine of Sola Scriptura (Queenship Publishing, 1997). FOR A MORE INDEPTH VIEW SEE http://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html Edited by Addai (04/28/08 10:25 PM)
Top

#287560 - 04/28/08 10:48 PM Re: Defending the Catholic faith with my friend [Re: Addai]
MrsMW MrsMW Member Registered: 01/26/07 Posts: 194 Loc: Southern California	Be sure to ask him where his beliefs are in the Bible and where it is expressed in the early church. Make him answer the question. This worked on me. I was Reformed.
Top

Page 1 of 1

Previous Topic View All Topics

Index Next Topic

Moderator: Father Anthony, Fr. Deacon Lance, Fatherthomasloya

Hop to:

Generated in 0.098 seconds in which 0.034 seconds were spent on a total of 13 queries. Zlib compression enabled.