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#272862 - 01/12/08 03:01 PM
Re: Mandated English Liturgies
[Re: Serge Keleher]
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Elizabeth Maria
Member
Registered: 12/20/03
Posts: 769
Loc: West Coast
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Church-Slavonic was never anyone's vernacular language, but this did not prevent people from being nourished spiritually by its use over many centuries. In bygone days the schools taught as part of the religion curriculum the meaning of the more obscure words in Church-Slavonic (but don't be fooled; I once asked a group of elderly ladies, who could and did converse quite freely in Carpatho-Russian, what "Az" meant - they had no idea. They also thought that "nasushchnyi" meant "daily").
I sympathize with those who love and appreciate Church-Slavonic, and it is not without practical value. But I do wish to offer one absolutely basic requirement to those under retirement age who desire a regular celebration in Church-Slavonic: learn the alphabet! It's not that hard, and it will help to make your request a convincing one.
The situation in the Russian Empire was complicated. The government and the "Holy Governing Synod" were willing to tolerate various languages (including English) in the Liturgy, but these were all languages that the authorities did not consider a threat to Russian nationalism. They would not tolerate Ukrainian or Belarusian. They also would not tolerate modern Russian, probably because they feared that this could encourage sectarianism.
Fr. Serge
Dear Father:
Even those in the post-retirement age group can learn a new language.
In fact, studies have shown that learning a new language after retirement stimulates brain cells and somehow may protect the brain from senility. This is new research I found when studying second language acquisition.
So, I am open to learning as many languages as I can. Of course, I am a linguist. 
Edited by Elizabeth Maria (01/12/08 03:03 PM)
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#279578 - 02/21/08 02:12 AM
Re: Mandated English Liturgies
[Re: Serge Keleher]
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Gabriel
Member
Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 88
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Father Serge, bless!
I am still awaiting a reply to my question: What does "nasushchnyi" mean? This in response to your statement about some elderly Russian ladies: They also thought that "nasushchnyi" meant "daily" (your implication being that it does not).
It occurred to me on rereading my posted question that you may have been put off by the second paragraph. I am not lecturing or trying to show off. I was only trying to explain the reason for my question. I really just want to know if that Slavonic word is a more accurate rendition of the original Greek.
Will you answer?
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#281208 - 03/03/08 04:06 PM
Re: Mandated English Liturgies
[Re: A student]
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Mykhayl
Member
Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 272
Loc: Pgh, PA USA
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C. I. X.
The parish I usually attend has 120 years of experimenting under its belt. Back then there were three services; Vespers, Matins and Liturgy each time period developing its own following to this day. Scripture readings are usually repeated in tandem liturgical AND vernacular languages as agreed upon by our missionary apostle Saint Methodius and Pope John VIII in 873. Of course back then the liturgical was probably Classical Greek and vernacular Slavonic. The choir sings the Liturgy in Slavonic for which the compositions were orchestrated while most priests intone in Ukrainian. Seasonal services and movable parts are often according to the preference of the crowd responding. If its Liturgy with American born often English seasoned with Slavonic is used as we believe the Lord is trilingual. If there are more new immigrants but the English responses are the ones being sung with gusto, guess which gets preference. Microphones don’t count. If its balanced it’s balanced, requiring a cantor fluent in three language traditions. What is unfortunate is when a newcomer thinks if it is not broke brake it and see what happens. With luck they are not around long so the natives have a chance to pick up the pieces before everything is swept away. Like someone asked “How many Russians does it take to change a light bulb? (answer) We use candles”. It tickles me that when the Ukrainian Orthodox use Ukrainian it is so modern only an independent Ukrainian citizen understands it, but when they use English it is full of “thees” and “thous”. Do you know how many Ukrainians it takes to change a light bulb? (answer) WE DON’T CHANGE!
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