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#274849 - 01/23/08 01:53 PM The term "Orthodox"
lanceg Offline
Member


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 690
Loc: Minneapolis
 Originally Posted By: EdHash
You guys have a problem of saying *orthodox* at your worship too. Is *orthodox* a hyperbole too that must be avoided with more upbeat contemporary words like *Christians of the True Faith*


The world used in the Slavonic is "pravoslavanja," orthodox. I wish we would indeed use Orthodox, it not more correct, it sounds better liturgically, to my ears.
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#274860 - 01/23/08 02:39 PM The term "Orthodox" [Re: lanceg]
Etnick Offline
Member


Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 787
Loc: Where we say men and mankind
 Originally Posted By: lanceg
 Originally Posted By: EdHash
You guys have a problem of saying *orthodox* at your worship too. Is *orthodox* a hyperbole too that must be avoided with more upbeat contemporary words like *Christians of the True Faith*


The world used in the Slavonic is "pravoslavanja," orthodox. I wish we would indeed use Orthodox, it not more correct, it sounds better liturgically, to my ears.


Personally, I'm glad the word Orthodox isn't used in the Ruthenian liturgy. Most of the people fear it, and would think "Oh no! Are we Orthodox now!". (They should be so lucky) ;\) Many Orthodox would take it as a slap in the face. "How dare they use the word Orthodox when they are Catholic"

There would be way too much confusion and suspicion.
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#274869 - 01/23/08 02:59 PM The term "Orthodox" [Re: Etnick]
Diak Offline
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Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6189
Loc: Kansas
Why would they fear it? We have used "orthodox" and "orthodox Christians" in the UGCC English translation for years; the Melkites have as well.
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#274871 - 01/23/08 03:02 PM The term "Orthodox" [Re: Diak]
Recluse Offline
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Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 613
Loc: Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: Diak
Why would they fear it? We have used "orthodox" and "orthodox Christians" in the UGCC English translation for years; the Melkites have as well.

I have personally witnessed people and even clergy (of an Eastern Catholic Church other than UGCC or Melkite) freak out because the word "orthodox" was used. It saddened me deeply. \:\(
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#274880 - 01/23/08 03:58 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Recluse]
Job Offline
Cantor
Member


Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 567
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: Recluse
 Originally Posted By: Diak
Why would they fear it? We have used "orthodox" and "orthodox Christians" in the UGCC English translation for years; the Melkites have as well.

I have personally witnessed people and even clergy (of an Eastern Catholic Church other than UGCC or Melkite) freak out because the word "orthodox" was used. It saddened me deeply. \:\(


Unfortunately, I have seen this as well in the BCC, from laity and clergy alike...I believe it has to do with the divisions that occured like with the formation of ACROD so it was a way to say "we aren't them"...
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#275034 - 01/24/08 12:20 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Job]
Serge Keleher Offline
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Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 2937
Loc: Dublin
Since the aversion to this term in Carpatho-Russian Greek-Catholic circles and publications began well before the formation of the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese, either the two phenomena are unrelated or the Ruthenian antiliterate energumens were remarkably prescient!

Fr. Serge
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#275037 - 01/24/08 12:27 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Job]
harmon3110 Offline
Grateful
Member


Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: Ohio, USA
 Originally Posted By: Job
 Originally Posted By: Recluse
 Originally Posted By: Diak
Why would they fear it? We have used "orthodox" and "orthodox Christians" in the UGCC English translation for years; the Melkites have as well.

I have personally witnessed people and even clergy (of an Eastern Catholic Church other than UGCC or Melkite) freak out because the word "orthodox" was used. It saddened me deeply. \:\(


Unfortunately, I have seen this as well in the BCC, from laity and clergy alike...I believe it has to do with the divisions that occured like with the formation of ACROD so it was a way to say "we aren't them"...



I have seen this too, for the same reason.

-- John
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#275088 - 01/24/08 03:59 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: harmon3110]
Etnick Offline
Member


Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 787
Loc: Where we say men and mankind
I remember the first time I heard "Orthodox Christians" in a Greek Catholic church was at a Ukrainian Catholic liturgy.

I was quite surprised when I heard it, thinking that the word Orthodox was only used in Orthodox churches! \:D
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#275094 - 01/24/08 04:46 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Etnick]
Our Lady's slave Offline
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Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 4726
Loc: Glasgow , Scotland
My SF uses 'Orthodox Christians' all the time and I ~think~ my parish does too [ Ukrainian ]
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#275097 - 01/24/08 05:26 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Our Lady's slave]
Logos - Alexis Offline
Member


Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 3404
Loc: Georgia
The Eastern Orthodox don't have a patent on the word "orthodox," and since from a Catholic point of view we are certainly Orthodox, why not use it?

Additionally, the Liturgy doesn't belong to the Eastern Orthodox. I think, as an outsider, the translation should be stuck to as originally as possible.

Alexis
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#275624 - 01/27/08 09:49 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Recluse]
dochawk Offline
Member


Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 179
Loc: Las Vegas
 Originally Posted By: Recluse

I have personally witnessed people and even clergy (of an Eastern Catholic Church other than UGCC or Melkite) freak out because the word "orthodox" was used. It saddened me deeply. \:\(


For a Catholic to reject "orthodox" in that sense is as silly as for an Orthodox to demand that "catholic" be removed from the creed . . .

hawk
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#275777 - 01/28/08 06:18 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: dochawk]
Serge Keleher Offline
Member


Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 2937
Loc: Dublin
On one or two occasions, I have heard Orthodox Christians recite the Nicene Creed (oh, all right, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed) substituting some euphemism for "Catholic". I managed to stop myself from snickering.

Fr. Serge
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#275780 - 01/28/08 06:27 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Serge Keleher]
Monomakh Offline
Member


Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 409
Loc: just south of nowhere
The Bishop of my Eparchy, Bisop Robert Moskal, wrote this (which I've posted before) and it pretty much sums up this topic:

http://stjosaphateparchy.org/BishopLetters.html


Monomakh
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#275933 - 01/29/08 02:02 PM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Monomakh]
AMM Offline
Member


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 2504
Loc: PA
Aside from the creed, the cornerstone of our parish reads "XYZ Orthodox Catholic Church". I think that's how we're officially incorporated because I see that name on most official documents. We also still have older parishioners who were actually Greek Catholic as children too.
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#276080 - 01/30/08 09:25 AM Re: The term "Orthodox" [Re: Serge Keleher]
Mikey Stilts Offline
Member


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 410
Loc: Baltimore, MD
 Originally Posted By: Serge Keleher
On one or two occasions, I have heard Orthodox Christians recite the Nicene Creed (oh, all right, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed) substituting some euphemism for "Catholic". I managed to stop myself from snickering.

Fr. Serge


At the funeral of a dear friend's father, held in an ECUSA church, one of my friends refused to say the word "catholic" when we said the Creed because he "just couldn't do it...I'm not Roman Catholic and I won't say it!".

The fact that we were in an Episcopal church was totally lost on him, even after I explained the use of that word from an Anglican POV to him.
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