Keithg29, brick22, BensGal, Lady Byzantine, Eli Akim, Kirk, Jerzy, Rusyn53, Lou, evergreen, old orthodox, PresJuliana, Heracleides, Addai, Jablinka
3134 Registered Users |
|
12 registered
(Heracleides, Stephen Barrow, Byzantine TX, Amadeus, ByzBob, Ung-Certez, Magyar, theophilus, Stephanos I, Memo Rodriguez, Terry Bohannon, 1 invisible)
and 241 anonymous users online.
|
|
The Byzantine Forum also hosts these private forums:
The Deacon’s Door (for deacons and deacon
candidates and their wives), the Orthodox Christian
Studies Forum (for currently enrolled students only of the distance education programs
offered by the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America) and
the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church Clergy Forum
(for clergy, religious, and clergy wives of that Church). Contact an administrator for
access.
|
|
3134 Members
20 Forums
21730 Topics
283963 Posts
Max Online: 1087 @ 07/16/07 01:09 PM
|
|
|
#286553 - 04/16/08 11:31 PM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: A Simple Sinner]
|
indigo
Member
Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 507
Loc: small blue planet
|
If nothing else it would help the cause of Christianity before the world if the churches underwent Lent and celebrated Easter at the same time. If I were Muslim I'd be asking what's wrong with these people that they can't agree on the date for the celebration of one of their most important holy days?!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#286575 - 04/17/08 06:21 AM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: indigo]
|
Serge Keleher
Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 2937
Loc: Dublin
|
If it's any consolation, not all Mohammedans agree on when to have Ramadan.
Fr. Serge
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#287190 - 04/23/08 02:56 PM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: Diak]
|
Epiphanius
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 299
Loc: Orlando, Florida
|
I think many Eastern Christians indeed have a bit of the "Old Believer" in them. As has been mentioned, it is much deeper than a simple calendar change - all of the aspects of the faith, rubrics included, are often seen as manifestations of faith dearly and tenaciously held as true.
Good observation. I suspect this phenomenon is related to what is sometimes called the sensus fidei, which is closely linked to tradition and "that which we have received."
I think perhaps the key to the problem of introducing changes influencing our manner of worship is that once the faithful are duly impressed with their bishop's complete devotion to them, their faith and their traditions (note: devotion to God is implicit in all these, but this is what the people can see and understand), they will put their trust in him and be more willing to accept changes they would otherwise reject.
I look to the example of Pope John Paul II as a case in point. The people of Italy, and especially of Rome, were attached to the tradition that "their" Pope was always an Italian. Needless to say, they quickly accepted "Papa Wojtila" as their own. The question remains, however, whether they would have accepted him if he hadn't made a real effort to persuade them of his complete devotion to them, which included a commitment to the things that were important to them.
I will certainly admit that the calendar is a bigger issue than the nationality of the Pope, but I think that all too often bishops don't see a need to earn the people's confidence before asking them to accept a change they may not be happy with ...
My two cents.
Peace,
Deacon Richard
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#287345 - 04/26/08 04:00 AM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: Epiphanius]
|
Serge Keleher
Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 2937
Loc: Dublin
|
Well, yesterday was Good Friday, which we kept with the appropriate services; today is Holy Saturday and I'm looking forward to the Vesper-Liturgy of Saint Basil this afternoon, and at midnight we shall of course celebrate the Procession, Paschal Orthros, and the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom, followed by the blessing of the Paschal foods.
If I were to receive a telegram ordering me to call it off, I would be quite traumatized!
Father Serge - Kali Anastasi!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#287355 - 04/26/08 09:43 AM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: Serge Keleher]
|
Lawrence
Member
Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 1704
Loc: Illinois
|
For me the two calendars came in handy this year. I had an abreviated Good Friday in March, where I couldn't stay for the whole Latin service at 3pm, and then missed the Jerusalem Matins at my UGCC parish at 6pm. I was devastated ! So yesterday I sorta regained the Good Friday I lost by going to Saints Volodymyr and Olha. It may be the most truly Eastern parish in the UGCC, but every time I've gone there, I've seen as many kneelers as standers.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#287361 - 04/26/08 12:19 PM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: Lawrence]
|
Serge Keleher
Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 2937
Loc: Dublin
|
Pastoral advice - if people wish to kneel, let them. It's not worth having a big fight.
Travel advice - try Saint Elias in Brampton.
Ultimate advice - come to Dublin!
Fr. Serge
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#287388 - 04/26/08 10:18 PM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: Serge Keleher]
|
pilgrimcantor
Junior Member
Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Florida
|
Christos Voskrese! from Florida...
I've been trying to figure out why the date for Easter changes so much in both Orthodox and Byzantine "Tradition" for most of my 60 years.
For most of my life, cantoring kept me pretty busy during Easter. It is good to be able to appreciate the other celebrations around me here in Florida. I live about a mile from a Greek Orthodox Church, and the procession around their church is a beautiful profession of faith and belief! Same goes for the gigantic Latin Rite parish across from the Orthodox parish. Our own parish, five weeks ago, had a very joyous Pascha -- Imagine, if you will, a Ukrainian Catholic priest celebrating the services according to Byzantine rubrics...We sang in English, Slavonic, and Ukrainian!
This thread has a lot of truth to it -- it is more than a calendar question. I think that the reality of belief is what is important -- Christ IS Risen! Because of that fact, we all rejoice, whether it was five weeks ago, or this Sunday, and continue to do so every Sunday!
This would be a good time to read John Chrysostom's Easter Sermon!
Christos Voskrese -- May we never forget that.
Andy Kovaly
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#287404 - 04/27/08 06:48 AM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: pilgrimcantor]
|
Serge Keleher
Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 2937
Loc: Dublin
|
CHRIST IS RISEN!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#287644 - 04/29/08 10:22 PM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: A Simple Sinner]
|
Felix
Junior Member
Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Tyler, Texas
|
I don't really care what date people want to celebrate Easter on. However, I am sick of hearing anti-Gregorian polemics based on inaccurate information. That's when I get emotional - angry. I am not supporting inaccurate anti-Julian polemics either. Unfortunately, I find that many people have stong feelings that are largely based on inaccurate polemics. I feel that this originates from the fact that each camp is trying to prove the opposing camp is, once again, wrong. It is a tendency in the Orthodox Church to reject Catholicism and, in the not so distant past, vice versa. However, we run the risk of rejecting truth when we reject all that another has to say. I hope that we can, one day, base our decision re Easter solely on the real facts and not on misinformation.
Felix
Edited by Felix (04/29/08 10:28 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#287695 - 04/30/08 02:05 PM
Re: Why is the Calendar Controversy such an Emotional Subject?
[Re: Diak]
|
Felix
Junior Member
Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Tyler, Texas
|
Diak,
I did not meant to imply that "accuracy" and "precision" should be the sole basis for any changes. Nor did I mean to imply that changes needed to be made. Instead, I meant to assert that our dialogue on the issue, when using facts, should seek to accurately portray them.
That being said, and with no disrespect to you, I think your post betrays typical problems faced when people try to discuss the matter. You begin discussing the "entirety of the received tradition," despite the fact that you know reasonable people differ on what that means. Let's not use such topical arguments. Let's not even argue. But if we do, let's get into the meat of why we differ, and not just claim that someone wants to disregard "received tradition."
I agree that preferring the Julian Calendar does not automatically equate with being anti-Catholic. However, I think you understand my concern with what I see as a systemic problem of the my-camp-is-always-right-and-your-camp-is-always-wrong crowd. To me, this crowd, regardless of which side they are on, so infuse themselves and their polemics into the calendar issue that no real meaningful discussion is usually possible. This is easily confirmed by looking at old forum threads.
You talk about a "wholescale change from a system in use since the Council of Nicea (sic)." Again, you know that many reasonable people would believe your statement to be inaccurate. Let's go deeper than such topical statements. Topical statements of this type are based upon underlying beliefs (which may or may not be true). Nonetheless, such topical statements are set forth as facts and are used to imply that the Gregorian crowd wants to disregard Nicaea as well as Holy Tradition. But you know that's not what the Gregorian crowd intends at all.
Again, I apologize for my tone. But I strongly disagree with the way your post was written.
Felix
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: Hieromonk Elias, Alice, Father Anthony, Irish Melkite
|
