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#286143 - 04/13/08 04:20 PM
Re: Orthodox to Catholic: questions
[Re: Peter_B]
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Prester John
Member
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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I'm interested in this question. I hope this thread won't die, but will instead be more fully developed.
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#286204 - 04/13/08 09:21 PM
Re: Orthodox to Catholic: questions
[Re: Prester John]
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A Simple Sinner
Member
Registered: 04/18/07
Posts: 953
Loc: Ohio
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Father John,
It is interesting in the theoretical standpoint... But save for it actually happening... Well the questions it engenders as to ritual praxis and what the identity of the WRO actually is, is something that seems to be a work in progress.
I have a feeling this would be filed under "cross that bridge when we come to it"... When dealing with real souls looking to belong in a real way, some of the issues of "let's figure out where you belong" would probably melt and morph into "where do you need to belong?"
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#286258 - 04/14/08 02:24 PM
Re: Orthodox to Catholic: questions
[Re: A Simple Sinner]
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Prodromos
Junior Member
Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington, DC
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I wasn't referring to some sort of monumental agreement between the Latin bishops [plural] and Melkite bishops [plural].
What I meant is that the Latin bishop [singular] might find it wise to talk to the Melkite bishop [singular] in case of an individual (person or family) coming from the WRO tradition. That's all.
Technically under CCEO 32, only the Apostolic See can give consent to a transfer of rite. But the Code presumes papal consent where the two local ordinaries agree on the transfer. So to make a formal transfer, one must petition the local bishop 'ad quem,' or his delegated representative (eg. proper pastor); the bishop 'ad quem' should then confer w/the bishop 'a quo' and get his consent before the individual can make a declaration to the bishop 'ad quem.'
First, an Orthodox person doesn't belong to one rite or the other, so the wording of Canon 35 is inappropriate (for lack of a better word. Is there a term that's like "anachronistic", but not pertaining to time?)
You're right that Canon 35 presumes a close correspondence between the rite one practices and the Church sui iuris which embodies it. In only a couple of Orthodox Churches do we see totally different ritual traditions being celebrated within one autonomous church. And off the top of my head, an example of the same in the West is the Ge'ez Rite Catholic Church in DC under the jurisdiction of the Archdiocese of Washington, not the Ethiopian Catholic Church. Mixing liturgical rite and ecclesiastical jurisdiction is not the ideal, but it's tolerated under special circumstances.
If an Ethiopian Orthodox wanted to convert to Catholicism while in America, then he would most likely be ascribed to the Latin Rite because there is no local Ethiopian Catholic eparchy with proper jurisdiction here. There's no provision that I know of that would ascribe the convert to another Eastern Catholic church that shares a closer liturgical relationship, such as the Coptic Catholic Church.
There is a real difference between the WRO and the Ge'ez rite under Latin jurisdiction, as well. The WRO is being actively promoted apart from a continuous historical community. But the Ge'ez rite parish is a pastoral provision for the care of the Ethiopian Catholic community in DC.
I also had overlooked the catch-all category at the end of the canon: "with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions." I think WRO converts would count as a "special case." So maybe formal transfer would not be necessary for a WRO convert to be immediately enrolled in the Latin rite. But given Orthodox ambivalence on WROs, I doubt Rome would broach the subject in any official capacity.
In the larger scheme of things, is the idea to merge each Orthodox Church into the corresponding Catholic Church? Recent dialogue suggests no, but Canon 35 suggests yes (or perhaps "could give the impression" would be more accurate).
CCEO was promulgated in 1990, so we can safely presume that it doesn't harbor any reconquista intentions. I think the theology of Canon 35 reflects apostolic ecclesiology common to both Catholic and Orthodox. Liturgy is one with ecclesiastical jurisdiction. And liturgical rite is about historical & ecclesiological continuity. Protestants, though heretical and schismatic, are still under the care of the Western Church; they are spiritual offspring of the Western Church. Protestant liturgies are all derivative of the Latin Rite. Though they reject the Catholic Church, there is no question as to who's ultimately responsible for them if and when they return to the Apostolic Faith.
With the Orthodox, uniatism does complicate matters, but theoretically if an Orthodox wants full communion with Rome, then submission to the jurisdictional primacy of the Pope is all that is needed. The authority of the Pope is independent of liturgical rite. So to give due respect to what is right and true in Orthodox liturgy, Canon 35 insists that liturgical continuity, and thus corresponding ecclesiastical governance under the proper Eastern Catholic hierarchy, be upheld. The Church is telling her converts: "You have a duty to preserve what's right and true in the ecclesial community you come from." It's an ecclesio-liturgical conservationist policy...or is it preservationist?
The Canon also effectively militates against our consumerist cult of choice. Even though adult conversion involves a personal act of will, I can't just shop for any ritual church I like if I convert. I have an 'ecclesial self' and it has a history that should be honored.
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#286293 - 04/14/08 08:20 PM
Re: Orthodox to Catholic: questions
[Re: Peter_B]
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Administrator
Administrator
Member
Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 4505
Loc: Virginia
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On another website, we were having a discussion of Canon 35, "Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions."
Someone then brought up the question of what would happen if a Western Rite Orthodox converted to Catholicism? Would he/she become part of the Latin Church?
I don't know the answer to that or even where to begin looking, but I thought someone here might possibly know.
Thanks,
Peter.
In practice anyone who chooses to become Catholic joins the Church he wishes to join. A Western Rite Orthodox would most likely be attracted to the Roman Catholic life. One would expect him to be received into that Church. Should he feel called to become Byzantine Catholic (Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Melkite, etc.), Maronite, Chaldean, etc., then he would join that Particular Church. The canons regarding enrollment in a Particular Church are really meant to 1) keep Churches from stealing one another’s members (a vast problem in earlier times when a large part of the Roman Catholic Church felt that the Roman Rite was superior to all others) and 2) to encourage the individual to truly investigate the Ritual Church that would most closely match the one he is coming from. Once the individual makes a decision the paperwork is unimportant. The Canons exist to serve a general need for good housekeeping in the Church. They serve the people, not the other way around. At all times they are guided by the rule of charity.
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#286303 - 04/14/08 11:13 PM
Re: Orthodox to Catholic: questions
[Re: AMM]
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Prodromos
Junior Member
Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington, DC
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As Administrator rightly suggests, if an Orthodox is received into full communion in a Latin-rite parish, canon law ascribes him to the Eastern-rite Church corresponding to his former Orthodox Church, even if a Latin-rite priest/bishop receives him in a Latin-rite liturgy. Similarly a Protestant who attends an Eastern-rite parish and enters into full communion through that Eastern Catholic Church is nonetheless enrolled in the Latin Rite, even if he has undergone formation and registration in that Eastern-rite parish. CIC 112.2 states it quite clearly The practice, however prolonged, of receiving the sacraments according to the rite of another ritual Church sui iuris does not entail enrollment in that Church. Christian faithful of Eastern Churches even if committed to the care of a hierarch or pastor of another Church sui iuris, nevertheless remain enrolled in their own Church.
An non-baptized convert to the Catholic Church is enrolled in the ritual church in which he chooses to be baptized (CIC 111.2). Only the non-baptized catechumen has freedom to choose rite upon his reception into the Catholic Church.
We can talk about how strictly Catholics around the world actually practice this de facto, but that is a separate question from the canonical issue de iure.
On the Ethiopian Orthodox convert hypo, I stand corrected by the Administrator for my confused application of the canonical principles I've been discussing, though I still don't think he's at liberty to choose his enrollment without a formal transfer of rite.
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#286316 - 04/15/08 07:16 AM
Re: Orthodox to Catholic: questions
[Re: Prodromos]
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Serge Keleher
Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 2937
Loc: Dublin
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As to the hypothetical convert from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church to Catholicism, I would devoutly hope that whatever Priest accepts responsibility for preparing him takes the trouble to learn something about the teaching and practice of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and to learn something about the Ethiopian Catholic presence in the USA. Perhaps I'm being utopian, but if the Priest does not make such an effort he is seriously remiss in his pastoral duty.
Since the Ethiopian Orthodox Church does not permit mixed marriages at all, a mixed marriage of an Ethiopian Orthodox to a Catholic might well be the occasion for such a conversion. That makes it all the more important that the Priest knows what he is doing before he does it.
I believe that the overstretched Ethiopian Catholic parish in Washington has some form of outreach to people in other cities who either already are Ethiopian Catholics or who wish to become part of the Ethiopian Catholic Church. At a minimum the prospective convert and prospective Catholic spouse should be put in touch with the Ethiopian Catholic parish in Washington.
Fr. Serge
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