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#288194 - 05/07/08 10:02 AM
ANABAPTISM OF A FORMER GREEK CATHOLIC FAITHFUL IN GREECE II
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Francisco
Member
Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 389
Loc: Spain
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Well, first of all I would like to apologize that I can not translate the whole open letter of the rector (father Michail Printezis) of Sait Peter and Paul Greek (Byzantine) Catholic Church in Giannitsa (Northern Greece) into English but I prefered to give you direct access to the document. Apart from that I humbly consider that the point here is not the language but the fact that our Orthodox brothers (priests of the cannonical Church of Greece and not of an Old Calendarist congregation) in Greece are anabaptizing those Greek-Catholic faithful wanting to enter in full communion with the Orthodox Church. In this particular case the anabaptised "heretic" just wanted to marry an Orthodox girld. Did not the Holy fathers of the Second Ecumenical Council (A.D. 381) promulgate in its 7th Canon that"Those heretics who come over to Orthodoxy and to the society of those who are saved we receive according to the prescribed rite and custom: we receive Arians, Macedonians, Novatianists who call themselves ‘pure and better,’ Quatrodecimans, otherwise known as Tetradites, as well as Appolinarians on condition that they offer libelli (i.e., recantations in writing) and anathematize every heresy that does not hold the same beliefs as the holy, catholic and apostolic Church of God, and then they should be marked with the seal, that is, anointed with chrism on the forehead, eyes, nostrils, mouth and ears. And as they are marked with the seal, we say, ‘seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit.’ As for Eunomians, however, who are baptized with a single immersion, Montanists, who are called Phrygians, and the Sabellians, who teach that Father and Son are the same person, and who commit other abominable things, and [those belonging to] any other heresies — for there are many of them here, especially among the people coming from the country of the Galatians, — all of them that want to adhere to Orthodoxy we are willing to accept as Greeks [i.e., pagans]. Accordingly, on the first day we make them Christians; on the second day, catechumens; then, on the third day, we exorcise them with the act of blowing thrice into their face and into their ears; and thus we do catechize them, and we make them tarry a while in the church and listen the Scriptures; and then we baptize them.". Was anabaptized or re-anointed(confirmated) or re-ordained the former Greek Catholic archpriest Alexis Toth, who was glorified as saint by the Orthodox Church in America and whose memory the Orthodox Church celebrates today? Was anabaptized or re-anointed(confirmated) or re-ordained the former Greek-Catholic priest and now Archbishop of Detoit and the Romanian Episcopate in America of the Orthodox Church in America Nathaniel Popp? If the Church of Greece considers that the Church of Russian and other Orthodox Churches commit an error receiving former Catholics without (ana)baptizing them who can they remain in communion with them?
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#288202 - 05/07/08 11:12 AM
Re: ANABAPTISM OF A FORMER GREEK CATHOLIC FAITHFUL IN GREECE II
[Re: Francisco]
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Halia12
Member
Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 136
Loc: Canada
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In this particular case the anabaptised "heretic" just wanted to marry an Orthodox girld.
What on earth is an "anabaptised heretic"? A member of the historic Anabaptist Protestant denominations?
Why do you call your information a document? Where was it published? Where is the documentation of the church other side?
Isn't this all hearsay?
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#288210 - 05/07/08 12:15 PM
Re: ANABAPTISM OF A FORMER GREEK CATHOLIC FAITHFUL IN GREECE II
[Re: Father Anthony]
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antv
Member
Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 51
Loc: Italy
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I think the link is: ( link ) from the official site of the Greek Catholic Exarcate in Greece (http://www.elcathex.com)
Edited by antv (05/07/08 12:16 PM)
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#288223 - 05/07/08 03:00 PM
Re: ANABAPTISM OF A FORMER GREEK CATHOLIC FAITHFUL IN GREECE II
[Re: nicholas]
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A Simple Sinner
Member
Registered: 04/18/07
Posts: 954
Loc: Ohio
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It's impossible to baptize a baptized person, and whoever tries to do so is commiting a sin and causing scandal.
Nick
Everyone agrees with as much for the most part...
The summer after my friend from college who went from Methodist to RC to ByzCath to OCA he went to Poland with a Polish priest who had been Greek Catholic and is now Ukrainian Orthodox to visit a Polish Orthodox monastery where he was baptized.
I asked him "Why did you get rebaptized?"
He replied "I didn't - rebaptism is impossible, there is only one baptism!"
Asks me "OK, so you did or did not get baptized in Poland?"
Replies him "I did get baptized - for the first time ever - in Poland. Methodists are graceless and the OCA priest was wrong to not Baptize me before!"
Well, ok then. He doesn't believe in re-baptism either.
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#288224 - 05/07/08 03:13 PM
Re: ANABAPTISM OF A FORMER GREEK CATHOLIC FAITHFUL IN GREECE II
[Re: A Simple Sinner]
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Halia12
Member
Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 136
Loc: Canada
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Un collègue prêtre de la paroisse orthodoxe voisine,dans notre ville de Giannitsa a rebaptisé un jeune catholique en vue de son mariage avec une jeune orthodoxe.
With my Canadian school French I read this as follows:
"A fellow priest from the neighbouring Orthodox parish, in our village of Giannitsa, rebaptised a young Catholic before his marriage with a young Orthodox woman."
Again I say this is just hearsay. What is the name of the priest in the neighbouring village and the name of the young man baptised? And the response of the Orthodox bishop and the Catholic bishop.
The link provided has an "Open Letter". To me it is just hearsay.
If an actual Greek Orthodox Church document can be provided to prove that re-baptising converts is the norm, I will listen.
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#288227 - 05/07/08 03:45 PM
Re: ANABAPTISM OF A FORMER GREEK CATHOLIC FAITHFUL IN GREECE II
[Re: Father Anthony]
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Administrator
Administrator
Member
Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 4508
Loc: Virginia
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In reviewing the article in French that was the original thread a few moments ago, one thing is very clear, the term "anabaptism" is not used but rather the term "rebaptism". Since I am fluent in French, there were only one or two terms I had to reference due to religious specific content to verify meaning and intent. The original post does list an author, but does not link or cite any source whether official or unofficial to verify the information. I am going to repeat the request for that information.
In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator
I agree with Father Anthony. There is just not enough information here to form conclusions. I can envision many explanations here, from the individual not being able to document his baptism (either with written documents or with personal testimony of a witness). It is also possible that the priest might simply be unaware of the standard Orthodox procedures regarding the reception of Catholics into Orthodoxy. If it does turn out to be accurate, that this priest re-baptized a Greek Catholic, then I think the proper response would be to send a letter of complaint to his bishop and ask that this priest and all the clergy of that eparchy be properly educated.
Simple Sinner also makes a good point, with an appropriate amount of sarcasm. Even the most severe Orthodox do not re-baptize. For them it is the first baptism as they do not recognize Catholic Sacraments. The Catholic Church disagrees with this (as do I as a faithful Greek Catholic), but it does occur, and there is a notable segment within Orthodoxy who hold this belief. Nothing surprising here.
Again, perhaps Fransciso can do some investigating and provide some solid evidence?
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Moderator: Father Anthony
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