www.byzcath.org

http://www.episcopal-life.org/79901_86292_ENG_HTM.htm



Hmm, I'm not sure what to make of this given the party involved on the "Anglican" side.

Much sound and fury, signifying nothing...

... well, to be fair all it means is on paper the Episcopal Church is still a Christian church, which of course is fine.

Yes, the Nicene, Apostles' and Athanasian creeds are in the American Prayer Book. But since James Pike as Bishop of California was allowed not to believe in them (he repudiated the Trinity) 41 years ago does that really mean anything?

As for corporate reunion as envisaged by St Tikhon, the Catholic Movement in Anglicanism is on the ropes.

I fear it's like ARCIC: both sides' liberals getting together and agreeing with each other. But there's nothing really to fear from the Orthodox on this as their 'liberals' are soundly conservative by Western standards.

Still, I wonder 'What's the point?'

Better to do what then-Cardinal Ratzinger did: bypass the national Episcopal authorities and talk directly to the conservative dioceses (in that case the American Anglican Council).

Like the Russian Orthodox Church, which broke off relations with 'the national church' in 2003 after the latter made a statement by approving and consecrating an unrepentant homosexual bishop.

It still talks to the conservative dioceses that opposed that.

Even though all except the three Anglo-Catholic dioceses ordain women. The improbabilist position on that is acceptable as is the impossibilist one.

Why not some joint charitable work with these groups or some innocuous stuff like Vacation Bible School, like local Anglican-Orthodox cooperation in the old days? Back then immigrants would send their kids to Episcopal Sunday school. Many/most Anglicans didn't try and convert them. They'd lend their churches for Orthodox services.

Though most of these people wouldn't become Orthodox tomorrow - many have evangelical Protestant leanings - dialogue with them wouldn't be a waste of time unlike these empty ecumenical gestures and pious rhetoric.

Similarly most of the conservative 'Global South' majority in the Anglican Communion is of the Protestant persuasion and would oppose Orthodoxy for lots of anti-Catholic reasons (even though there's no Pope).

But the Orthodox trying to witness to these Christian brothers to teach them and disabuse them of those notions wouldn't be a waste.

The recent actions of the Anglican Church just prove how far from Christianity they have fallen. To call some of them Christian is generous.

Dear Ray,

In the words of Bishop Kallistos Ware, let's remember that there are, indeed, orthodox believers within the Anglican communion, and we must not condemn them, rather we must pray for them.

Infact, I met one such lady from the South at last week's coffee hour. She was visiting her son and daughter-in-law, and her daughter-in-law is the niece of an Orthodox bishop of blessed memory.

This woman is very active in her church's ecumenical outreach. She was very fond of the initiatives of the late Archbishop Iakovos. She laments the changes to her church and in her own words, she knows that they are setting unity back, rather than closer together.

We had a very nice, ecumenical and respectful conversation. She obviously has no intent to leave her beloved church, and in doing so, I believe that she is brave. It is far braver for the faithful to stay where they are scandalized or hurt than to leave. They are fighters and they ARE good Christians, and they deserve our prayers and not our judgement.

In Christ,
Alice

Alice,

Yes indeed, well said. One thing that people have to realize is that, especially on the east coast of the United States, there are many people who see themselves as descended from several generations of family in their Church (whether Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, etc.). And so, by leaving Anglicanism, they would be abandoning their heritage. With such strong ties to traditions, it is difficult to leave. Some feel that they must be loyal and stay with it through thick and thin. I think that this is especially the case with southern Anglicanism.

Joe

What Alice and Joe said.

Amen my Orthodox sister...


" It is far braver for the faithful to stay where they are scandalized or hurt than to leave. They are fighters and they ARE good Christians, and they deserve our prayers and not our judgement."

For to leave would mean surrender to...

james

This is very true. The Episcopal/Anglican church has been a church of social, family and cultural identity for generations of American families...and in a way, this is not all that different from the way the various Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic people feel about their churches.

In Christ,
Alice