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The Christian East & West Jump to new posts
Re: Do eastern Catholics venerate all the saints Rome canonizes? Fr. Deacon Lance 12/01/22 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by Giovanni1
Since there is one God, there is one Faith. Since there is one Faith, there is one Heaven.

The difference can only be summed up as, different traditions, the same religion. For example, though Saint Constantine is not commerated in the West (I think), he is objectively still a Saint recognized by the Church. On the other side, see for example Saint Therese Byzantine Catholic Church.

The religion is the exact same, despite word choices such as the issue of "proceeds from the Father and the Son." vs. "proceeds from the Father." The Council of Florence for example settles that issue completely. The only thing that is different is the traditions. The West has the Mass, the East the Divine Liturgy and other Liturgies.
I think you will find that for us not Florence but Constantinople I settled that issue.
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The Christian East & West Jump to new posts
Re: Combining sui iuris churches Fr. Deacon Lance 12/01/22 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by Giovanni1
Though I'm not a Ukrainian or Ruthenian Catholic:

There was a point in history where these two churches were one church. Actually, all Ukrainian Catholics were classified as Ruthenians. The Ruthenian/Ukrainian division only really exists in the United States (in a profound way). There used to be one bishop for all Ruthenians/Ukrainians in the United States, then I'm sure a Hungarian bishop was assigned which just caused ethnic tensions (having a non Ruthenian/Ukrainian bishop), and so it was split into two jurisdictions ruled by priests who had all the jurisdiction of a bishop except obviously the ability to ordain clergy, and I think they were still objectively subject to the Latin hierarchs.

In terms of specifics, the Ruthenian Churches generally have a lot of non-Ruthenians (their liturgical languages in America are only seemingly English and Church Slavonic) while the Ukrainian Church though having some non-Ukrainians, is generally comprised of those of Ukrainian background.

Again, I'm not an authority on this subject but this is basically how it was and is now.

The division exists in Ukraine and always has. The Eparchy of Mukachevo is immediately subject to Rome. It was never apart of the Kyivan Province and answered to Contantinople via Moldavian metropolitans.
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: The (false) Controversy of “Obligation” theophan 12/01/22 07:18 PM
Christ is in our midst!!

I find this whole idea of forcing someone to go to the Divine Liturgy--or Mass, for Latin Catholics--by making it an "obligation" as completely missing the point.

We meet Christ, our Creator, when we participate in the Divine Liturgy/Mass. We meet the One Who we should love above all other people and all other things. Consider, if someone begins a new relationship, does one count deepening, developing, and nurturing that relationship as an "obligation"--something that is a drudgery, something one does as if needing a gun held to one's head?

I bracket my life with the Liturgy. I no sooner leave one and am looking forward to the next time I will encounter the Lord and be nourished in my relationship by Him. At liturgy, I will be taught in the Scripture readings. And each time I hear a familiar one, the Holy Spirit reveals some new way of understanding it. At liturgy I will be nourished with what the preparation prayers call "unearthly bread that feeds my mind." When I hold my Lord in my hand and gaze it Him, I realize that this is the only reality that there is. This life changes constantly and passes away. But He is the same yesterday, today, and always. I reflect on how I treat Him as He lies in my hand and remember that the reverence, the respect, the love that I show Him in that moment before consuming Him is the way He will treat me when I am called into eternity and am held in His Hands.

We are in a love affair. We enter into that love affair concretely in the Divine Liturgy. No one calls a love affair an obligation, but sees it as something to be cherished and nurtured. It should be like the feeling a newly-wed feels during the work day--I counted the hours and minutes until I returned to my beloved. I count the hours and minutes until I am back at Liturgy.

As a professional, I am often gifted to be able to attend the Liturgy during the course of my work. I count that as a bonus. I never count the hours or minutes I had to be there.

On the one hand, it is a sad thing to leave Liturgy because it is over. But since we carry Our Lord with us after we have received Him and He is absorbed into every fiber of our being, it is not really sad.

Christ did not approach His mission, including the Cross, the Nails, and the Tomb as an obligation. He did not see the Last Supper in that way either. He embraced His Passion eagerly because He intended it to be the way through which He would reach us over time and distance until He comes again. He joyfully established the Liturgy as the way we would connect with Him through the years to follow. I believe we should treat our being at Liturgy the same way.

My 2 cents this afternoon.
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The Christian East & West Jump to new posts
Re: Combining sui iuris churches Giovanni1 12/01/22 03:50 PM
Though I'm not a Ukrainian or Ruthenian Catholic:

There was a point in history where these two churches were one church. Actually, all Ukrainian Catholics were classified as Ruthenians. The Ruthenian/Ukrainian division only really exists in the United States (in a profound way). There used to be one bishop for all Ruthenians/Ukrainians in the United States, then I'm sure a Hungarian bishop was assigned which just caused ethnic tensions (having a non Ruthenian/Ukrainian bishop), and so it was split into two jurisdictions ruled by priests who had all the jurisdiction of a bishop except obviously the ability to ordain clergy, and I think they were still objectively subject to the Latin hierarchs.

In terms of specifics, the Ruthenian Churches generally have a lot of non-Ruthenians (their liturgical languages in America are only seemingly English and Church Slavonic) while the Ukrainian Church though having some non-Ukrainians, is generally comprised of those of Ukrainian background.

Again, I'm not an authority on this subject but this is basically how it was and is now.
12 2,478 Read More
Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: ORTHODOX ALASKA Fr. Deacon Thomas 12/01/22 05:49 AM
The video is an excellent showcasing of evangelism: Cultural sensitivity without compromising Orthodox (irrespective of ethnic labeling) theology or practice.

I highly recommend viewing it in preparation for the Feast of St. Herman of Alaska (F.D. December 13, NC)

O blessed Father Herman of Alaska,
North star of Christ's holy Church,
The light of your holy life and great deeds,
Guides those who follow the Orthodox Way.
Together we lift high the Holy Cross
You planted firmly in America.
Let all behold and glorify Jesus Christ,
Singing His Holy Resurrection.
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Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Jump to new posts
Re: Small Compline Fr. Deacon Lance 11/30/22 06:07 PM
Well given that in the Byzantine Church the Office isn’t an obligation imposed on individuals, I would say it is fine to read Small Compline at home rather than Great Compline. Monastics will have a cell rule that includes reciting the Jesus Prayer a number of times in place of an hour of the office. The Basilian Horologion suggested

Matins - 300 prayers
Vespers - 200 prayers
Compline - 150
For each of the 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th Hours - 50 prayers
Midnight Hour - 300
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Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Jump to new posts
Small Compline Devin1890 11/30/22 05:29 PM
I have a random question concerning small Compline.

On days when Great Compline is prescribed, is it normative for those unable to attend Great Compline in person to still recite Little Compline at home. I am thinking of the the Great Fast, Christmas or Theophany. Or is there another practice that is traditionally done.
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Books Jump to new posts
Re: FullEnglish Translation of the Ruthenian Časoslóv (Book of Hours) ajk 11/30/22 12:45 PM
How to use, reviewed and recommended by Fr. Jack Custer: Introducing the Časoslov: the new English edition of the Ruthenian Book of Hours [youtube.com].
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Church News Jump to new posts
Re: Shared Easter Date theophan 11/29/22 04:23 PM
Christ is in our midst!!

Seems we will in about 2 1/2 years. After that, who knows.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: Repose of a Forum Member, Pani Rose Charitina 11/29/22 03:06 AM
I, too, remember her frequent posts from years back ... May she rest in peace.
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Church News Jump to new posts
Shared Easter Date FloridaPole 11/29/22 02:15 AM
Do you think it's possible that we will have a universal date for Easter at last?
https://aleteia.org/2022/11/19/pope-on-shared-easter-date-with-orthodox-pick-a-date-and-well-accept/



Aletia Article
[aleteia.org]
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: Repose of a Forum Member, Pani Rose Fr. Deacon Thomas 11/26/22 10:02 PM
May her Memory be Eternal!
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Books Jump to new posts
Re: FullEnglish Translation of the Ruthenian Časoslóv (Book of Hours) JLF 11/26/22 05:43 PM
Discount on The Book of Hours ends soon!

Our "early-bird" discount price on The Book of Hours ($60 discount from $75 regular price) will end in less than a week, on November 30, 2022. Get your copy now!

https://ecpubs.com/product/the-book-of-hours/
7 571 Read More
The Christian East & West Jump to new posts
Re: Orthodox Church of Ukraine allows Gregorian calendar Christmas theophan 11/26/22 12:00 AM
Quote
. . . due to theophan staying up late on account of the tight senate race in Pennsylvania . . .

Roman,

Actually the bleery eyes were due to the fact that I am Judge of Elections in a precinct near my home. We report in at 6 a.m. and I didn't get home until nearly 10 p.m. By that time, I didn't care who won the election as long as I could crash and get some sleep. LOL

Bob
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Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Jump to new posts
Re: English / Ukrainian Text of the Divine Liturgy NOVAByz 11/23/22 12:07 PM
A good resource with a parallel of the Divine Liturgy (plus Vespers, Matins, and a number of other services) is https://stjosaphat.ab.ca/liturgical-booklets/.
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: The (false) Controversy of “Obligation” chooch factor 11/22/22 04:07 PM
Firstly, just want to thank you all for the well thought out and thorough replies. Secondly, thank you for positive attitudes and the education! These are the best answers to this question I have found in many hours of searching across the internet.

God bless you all.
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: The (false) Controversy of “Obligation” akemner 11/22/22 03:26 PM
Saint Basil gives the canon that one is excommunicated if he or she misses three Sundays in a row without reason. I think this is still the case technically but not really enforced these days. It boils down to talk to your priest. As for Eastern Catholics, we have not been under our traditional canon law since the 1930s or 1950s (I cannot remember precisely we were put under the 1917 code), so what the Orthodox do is one thing and what Eastern Catholics do is another, for good or for ill.
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: The (false) Controversy of “Obligation” Edward H (Irish_Ruthenian) 11/22/22 03:03 PM
From an earlier post in this forum on the same subject

https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/234999/holy_days_orthodox_obligation

Quote
I just spoke with an Orthodox priest concerning their Ascension services and I was wondering if they consider it a Holy Day of Obligation like the West does. He told me that they do not have this same concept and that attendance is something everybody should do who is able, but it is notmandatory or sinful to miss for some reason.

I found this interesting since on my other post people were criticizing the western church for movingthe day to sunday to make it easier for people to attend. I understand the criticism, but then what of the fact that we actually require all people to go to Holy Days of Obligation and in the Orthodox Church it is not considered sinful to miss one?

It does not bother me that the Orthodox believe differently, and I am not trying to disrespect them, I am just curious as to how their view of attending Holy Days and Sundays compares with the West, and if I got accurate information from the priest.

This is my understanding also.
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: The (false) Controversy of “Obligation” akemner 11/22/22 01:27 PM
Below are the canons in question. To wit, there are two classes of days of obligation-Obligation (specified within the CCEO) and Precept (specified by the Church sui juris or eparchy). The days with obligation are: Sundays, December 25, January 6, June 29, August 15 and Ascension. Days of precept are dicatated by Church. In the Byzantine rite, traditionally there were around two dozen such days. The Romanians and Ukrainians follow the traditional list wrt obligation for laity. For the Ruthenian church in the USA, those days are days the services are required to be celebrated by the priest, but the laity don't have the same obligation to attend.

Also, obligation can be satisfied by attending any of the Divine Praises, not just the Divine Liturgy. Finally, liturgical celebrations are tied to fasting practices. Proper full celebration of a feast thus includes fasting and attendence to all the major services of the day (Vespers, Orthros, Divine Liturgy).

The other days (than listed above) are September 8, 14, 26; October 1 (Slav) or 23 (Greek); November 8, 21; December 6, 25; January 6, 30, February 2; March 25; GHThursday, Ascension; April 23; May 8; June 24, 29, July 20; August 6, 15, all Sundays, Temple Feast. There is local variation, of course.

Canon 880 - Ї1. Only the supreme authority of the Church can establish, transfer or suppress feast days and days of penance which are common to all of the Eastern Churches, with due regard for Ї3.
Ї2. The authority of a Church sui iuris which is competent to establish particular law can constitute, transfer or suppress feast days and days of penance for that Church sui iuris, however having sought the opinions of the other Churches sui iuris and with due regard for can. 40, Ї1.
Ї3. Holy days of obligation common to all the Eastern Churches, beyond Sundays, are the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension, the Dormition of the Holy Mary Mother of God and the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul except for the particular law of a Church sui iuris approved by the Apostolic See which suppresses a holy days of obligation or transfers them to a Sunday.

Canon 881 - Ї1. The Christian faithful are bound by the obligation to participate on Sundays and feast days in the Divine Liturgy, or according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church sui iuris, in the celebration of the divine praises.
Ї2. In order for the Christian faithful to fulfill this obligation more easily, the available time runs from the evening of the vigil until the end of the Sunday or feast day.
Ї3. The Christian faithful are strongly recommended to receive the Divine Eucharist on these days and indeed more frequently, even daily.
Ї4. The Christian faithful should abstain from those labors or business matters which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's day, or to the proper relaxation of mind and body.

Canon 882 - On the days of penance the Christian faithful are obliged to observe fast or abstinence in the manner established by the particular law of their Church sui iuris.

Canon 883 - Ї1. The Christian faithful who are outside the territorial boundaries of their own Church sui iuris can adopt fully for themselves the feast days and days of penance which are in force where they are staying.
Ї2. In families in which the parents are enrolled in different Churches sui iuris, it is permitted to observe the norms of one or the other Church, in regard to feast days and days of penance.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: Repose of a Forum Member, Pani Rose Alice 11/22/22 02:05 AM
May her blessed and faithful soul rest in eternal peace.
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Books Jump to new posts
Re: Any suggestions for a daily read for Great Lent? JLF 11/22/22 12:48 AM
We also have several of books of daily reflections during Lent:

https://ecpubs.com/product/unfinished-business/ by Marianne Sailus
https://ecpubs.com/product/carrying-your-cross-with-christ/ by Marianne Sailus
https://ecpubs.com/product/back-to-the-garden/ by Fr Jack Custer
https://ecpubs.com/product/rejoice-isaiah/ by Fr Jack Custer
https://ecpubs.com/product/journey-through-the-great-fast/ by a large variety of authors

Jack Figel, Eastern Christian Publications
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Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Jump to new posts
Re: English / Ukrainian Text of the Divine Liturgy JLF 11/22/22 12:34 AM
Yes, I have a priest service book in three languages:

https://ecpubs.com/product/leiturgikon-christ-with-us/

See attached sample files.
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
The (false) Controversy of “Obligation” chooch factor 11/21/22 11:39 PM
Looking for some Byzantine perspective here.

All across the vast reaches and depths of the internet, there seems to be what I would consider a false controversy surrounding the idea of Holy Days of Obligation. I may be incredibly wrong, but the “debate” seems to be more about semantics than anything.

For context, I’ve seen many Latin Catholics ask about days of obligation in the Byzantine Rite (a very honest, understandable, and sincere question), and be met with a terrible attitude and a lot of “snark” but never a genuine answer or attempt to edify.

The question still remains: What are the Holy Days of Obligation in the Byzantine Rite?

To clarify, I understand and agree that we attend liturgy to honor and praise God and it should not be something we feel is a “chore”. That said, there are days where one cannot or would find it difficult to attend a liturgical service of any type but (in the Latin Church) are obliged to do so under penalty of sin. What are those days on the Byzantine calendar?

Please keep in mind, this is an honest/sincere question. All differences in theological perspective aside, I feel like it is answerable in a charitable and non-demeaning or sanctimonious/condescending way. Any such straightforward answer would be appreciated.
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Geek Hall Jump to new posts
Wondering if Anyone Wants to Help Make an Encyclopedia Website Giovanni1 11/20/22 12:28 AM
Hello all,

I have recently been thinking that on the internet, there is no real single source of Catholic information, and I decided to make a website to address that issue. I wonder if anyone would like to either check it out (it's very new) and say something about it, or would like themselves to contribute to the website, it is essentially supposed to be a true encyclopedia website. If someone would like to contribute something, please respond or PM me your email address so that I may send you instructions on how to make an account (to prevent random people from signing up and spamming). Here's the website: chrysostom.info
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Church News Jump to new posts
Re: Assyrian Church of the East and Ancient Church of the East dochawk 11/18/22 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
When Orthodox theologians in talks with the Oriental theologians pressed the matter, it came out that "Physis" or "Nature" for them meant the same as "Person" does for the Orthodox.

I coined the term "violent agreement" for such situations, in which both sides talk past the other . . .
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