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While I am not Eastern Orthodox, I will note the most common response to be that this is meant to refer to Christ's immaculate conception from the Mother of God, and not her own. However, I am unsure how new this explanation is, and would love to hear this position explained in further depth.

As a slight aside, I believe the Greek Orthodox do not use this exact wording. In their menaion, the verse is written: "Ὑμνοῦμεν τὴν ἁγίαν σου γέννησιν, τιμῶμεν καὶ τὴν ἄσπορον σύλληψιν..." or, "We hymn your holy birth, and honour your seedless conception".
I don't know if this is the same for Melkites & Greek Greek-Catholics (what a mouthful!) as well. I also don't know if this was a conscious change or a difference in translation; though, I believe Old Believers have always pointed to this (among other things) as proof for their belief in the apostasy of the mainline Orthodox churches, since they held the sinlessness of the Theotokos since conception as a core teaching of the Fathers that the Nikonian camp had (among other things) abandoned.

turaŭski

I can confirm that twenty years later, St. Nektarios shrine still has a paraklisi service after Liturgy every Sunday at noon. The parish has an actual convert who reads (but not chants) hymns for Saint Nektarios in Armenian and then does a very small amount of actual Byzantine chant in the Armenian language in the form of singing "Lord have mercy" (Der voghormya/Տէր ողորմեա) in Armenian to accompany Greek «Κύριε ἐλέησον» and English. Then at the end, she sang "Der voghormya" but in the Armenian style and not using Byzantine chant. It was still really touching, don't get me wrong, especially because a lot of people brought their disabled children or grandchildren, I just thought that the parish has painstakingly translated the entire service into liturgical Armenian and fit the language into Byzantine melodies. They're not quite at that level yet. I took a ton of videos, but this forum is stuck in the 1990's so the file sizes will be entirely too big for me to upload here, I would imagine. Even singular iPhone photos are too big of files to upload. Armenians outnumber Greeks 1,000:1 in SoCal so the liturgy had less than 100 people whereas the paraklisi was standing room only with every single pew at capacity. I've never seen so many Armenians in my life, even in Glendale. The lady cantor was also praying for the town of Covina in Armenian from what I could make out, which was also really heartfelt. I'm glad I went. I doubt I'll ever see something like that again.

I don't know where precisely you are at in Northeast Wisconsin but if you get the chance I would encourage you to check out Holy Resurrection Monastery in St Nazianz, WI (about an hour south of Green Bay). It would be worth the trip!

There's also Holy Protection Monastery in Eagle Harbor, MI that might be closer depending on just how far north you are.

I also prayed for you; hope you have a fruitful sojourn at Madonna House.

How is Kirkland Lake doing?
I was surprised to hear about the high rents in Sudbury (suggesting things are OK over there).

CaliforniaByzantin,

If I can add a point or two, I am not sure how charitable this is to our Western brethren, or to the living authority of the Church.
This division in opinion over divorce seems to go back to the Old Covenant, with the rabbinical schools of Hillel and Shammai. There are certainly (especially unequivocally, in the East) traditions of divorce and remarriage, but equally so, the tradition adopted at Trent can be drawn all the way back to St. Augustine (and contended for in interpreting earlier works). The Blessed Bishop has this to say:
I agree that there is a question as to whether the decision of the Tridentine Council to decisively rule in favour of one tradition over another was a good idea; but it's ultimately still rooted in an authoritative tradition, and I don't think berating this teaching as a product of forgery is helpful for the Church here. Ultimately, assuming we're in the Catholic Church, this is just as much part of the history of the Church's canons as is any other teaching, and so we have to at least accept its legitimate existence.

I also wonder how this can be balanced with the variety of interpretations of divorce & remarriage in the Eastern Churches. Certainly, the principle in some way was understood, and there was no discussion of annulment theology in the words used today; but I believe the Coptic Church has always been incredibly strict on the exception for adultery only, while the Byzantine Churches have greatly expanded what falls under legitimate grounds for divorce, something other claimants to 'Holy Orthodoxy', like Old Believers, are happy to point out as polemic against the mainline EO Churches. In Russia, I believe, divorce is in practice very easily accessible. So there are problems in both lungs of the Church here, and would likely require much more... let's say, ecumenical conciliarity... than one side succumbing to the other's will.
Forgive me for any mischaracterisation or errors, but I hope these comments can benefit the discussion.

turaŭski

Christ is in our midst!!

Michael_Thoma,

I was hoping you would see this thread. Thank you for your Church's understanding of excommunication.

My understanding comes from a book I have that is from Latin sources and was published in 1910. An excommunicate was not to be given Christian burial and could not be buried in consecrated ground.

It seems from the obituary you provide that moving from one tradition to another is not something that carried the harsh condemnation that I was taught one obtained by that move. Is it because each Apostolic Church in the Christian East, being under Islamic pressure and persecution, finds it best to support the individual in his faith pilgrimage rather than add Church persecution to a life?

Is anyone familiar with Madonna House?

I am told they attempt to breathe with both lungs of the church and am leaving to go visit for two weeks in a couple days.

I know I have to "come and see," and have talked to a few people, so I feel confident in this, but would appreciate any insights from this thoughtful and prayerful community.

Hello ! Thank you so much for the help.
I just now figured out how to find my forums and their replies, but unfortunately before that I posted this same post again , I hope that's ok.
But thank you so much for the hell and suggestions

Hello, I wanted to see if you have any books or links to pdfs(since I can not buy them unfortunately) to prayer life and spiritual life.
The name of the said book would also suffice.

I am currently reading instructions of prayer by the Syriac Fathers, but would appreciate other books also.
If you have other book on the Syriac tradition, that would also be appreciated.
Thank you.

A good, holy and kind priest. Memory Eternal; May he rest in Peace.

Christ is in our midst!!

Gerard Chew,

Welcome to the forum. We hope your time with us is spiritually enriching.

That said, the video you posted has nothing to do with the forum or what we are about. Please don't post this again.

Bob
Moderator

Christ is in our midst!!

Edward H,

Your most recent post crosses the line when it comes to the civility we maintain on this forum. We don't direct cutting remarks to other members with whom we disagree.

With that in mind, I am closing this thread.

Bob
Moderator