www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West HOCNA

What is the story with HOCNA? are they part of the OCA? Where do they trace their Apostolic succession back to?

HOCNA is not a part of the OCA, in fact it considers the OCA to not be Orthodox!

HOCNA is a "church" that was originally a group of Greeks in the Greek Archdiocese. They left and joined ROCOR. ROCOR then seemed to liberal for them (and ROCOR accused them of molestations) so they jumped ship and joined the Synod of Archbishop Auxentius, a hierarch of the True Orthodox Church of Greece. Finally, when he died, they broke from his successor and formed their own independent Church.

They do not consider many other Orthodox bodies to be really Orthodox.

anastasios

The HOCNA is a schismatic, ultraconservative group that separated from the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR)... because they were too liberal! :p

Apparently, the separation was caused by a personal disputes between the Archimandrite of a monastery and the ROCOR hierarchy. Then the group started contacts with the schismatic old-calendar "True Orthodox Church of Greece" and broke with the ROCOR.

According to both HOCNA and TOG, they're the only true Church, anyone outside their small jurisdictions is a schismatic under heretical ecumenist and masonic churches. They use to re-baptize Catholics and even Orthodox Christians who join the HOCNA, and they're outside the Orhodox Church.Some prominent members of HOCNA were former Evangelicals who have been jumping from religion to religion and jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Anglican, Roman Catholic, then Byzantine Catholic, then Orthodox, and then Old Calendarist wow! (in a newsgroup I read that members of HOCNA had desserted recently, to the SSPX!).

Unfortunately, this schism had as part of it, the Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston which had done SO much in working on translations of the texts of the Services as well as many other scholarly efforts. Very Sad for the Church.

HOCNA calling the ROCOR too liberal reminds me of the Society of St. Pius V who left the Society of St. Pius X because they felt Archbishop Lefebvre was too liberal and had sold out to the modernists.

Dear Anastasios,

THAT is an understatement. On a certain Orthodox laity forum, one of them, (he was a convert) came on, calling EVERYONE THERE A HERETIC, and to get with the only true church which was his.

He said something about 'the Metropolitan of Boston', and when asked if he meant, Met. Methodios,(GOA) he didn't even qualify it with an answer, (because he is a 'heretic' I suppose), and went on to say the ONLY Metropolitan of Boston was his...whatever his name was.

He got challenged by some very astute Orthodox Christians and some clergy, but he never waivered. He eventually went away though.

The whole thing was totally bizarre!

In Christ,
Alice

I was wondering if anyone has any ideas about how to answer someone that says your Church (whether Orthodox or Catholic) has no grace? I don't really know how to deal with this question adequately. One case in point -- I had a discussion at an Orthodox get together once with a visitor who was very persistent in claiming that all Christians who weren't Orthodox were really pagan and not really Christian at all. This person had become Orthodox in some non-mainstream jurisdiction. We went round and round and round until finally I was so upset and exhausted that I politely left the discussion and hung out with my friends who were at the gathering. Anyone have any ideas on how to answer these types of questions from HOCNA type people? (By the way, I think every branch of Christianity has HOCNA type people.)

Clarification on my just submitted post--when I said that every branch of Christianity has HOCNA type people, I meant there are a minority of people in every branch of Christianity that are HOCNA type people.

Dear Dunstan,

If he was in a non-canonical schismatic group such as HOCNA, save your breath! (Read my above post).

Seriously, I think that these groups, (Pentecostal Protestants also come to mind) appeal to personalities that like to be brainwashed and which like to beat others into submission. To me, these people act more cult like than Christian.

So again, my humble advice, is: don't bother with them!

In Christ,
Alice

Better not to. It is better to speak to God about them, than to speak to them about God.

(paraphrasing Father Epiphanios)

I agree, Brian. Schism is always a painful affair.

The HTM has done a great service by printing English translations such gems as the Mega Horologion, Psalter of the 70, Preparation for Holy Communion, etc.

Thank you for your post everyone. Yet I still feel that the answers were tainted with too much of personal opinion. I really want to know why they are Schismatic and heritics as you call them. I have had the pleasure of a dialog with the Administrator of St Nectarous in Seattle and havent been led to beleve that they are that mean.

In my discussions I have found that they are very traditional and seem to have more problems with the Orthodox than the Catholics.The main points that were presented to me were The Papacy, Baptism, Purgatory,Orthodox involvement in the WCC,
As a matter of fact he was very warm to me and in his speaking of the Orthodox it seemed that he thought the Orthodox should have known better.He talked about the Pan-Orthodox Councils of Constantinople and how the Orthodox have pulled away from them.He renounced the claim of envolvement in the Masons and was very adament about that.And one of the things that we did agree on was the Orthodox involvement in the WCC as BAD.
I want you to understand that I am not defending any church yet I am looking for answers on all the churches and their dogmas.I have seem to have found that the more conservative that you get the farther back their dogmas go and the less willing they are to make up new ones.
Poor Sinner Chad

Dear Hieromonk Elias and Alice:

Thank you for your kind advice.

--Dunstan

I think Fr. Elias' paraphrase of Father Epiphanios says it all.

As with all religious groups there will be good and bad, and a definite "personality" of the group as a whole. HOCNA has basically set itself as one of the only remnants of Orthodoxy.

I think C4C is looking for a reason not to believe them, though. That is what no one is providing. I can provide one, (they are not in communion with Rome), but someone who accepted the modern E.Orth premises would not be satisfied by that reason.

LatinTrad