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Slava Jesu Kristu,

I have been researching the Cathusian Monastic Order. The Order was founded in France by St. Bruno around the eleventh century. Interestingly enough, their spirituality appears very Eastern to me.
They emphasize private contemplation above everything and spend most of their time praying alone in their cells. This seem very similar to the Skete monastic model popular in northern Russian and other monastic centers of the East. Has anyone had experience with the Carthusians and, if so, what were your impressions?
As far as I am aware, there is only one Cathusian house in the US.

Dmitri

I had a friend who was a priest in the Carthusians. He has since left the order and the priesthood. Many Western Orders were influence by Eastern Thought. Remember that many Westerners traveled to the East, and during the Iconoclast persecution many Eastern bishops traveled to the West. The Carthusians still have their own Rite. Yes, there is one in the U.S. in Wittingham, Vt. They accept no visitors unless you plan to enter the order. But in Europe they are more open.

Dear Friends,

Yes, the Benedictines are a great example of a Western Order whose Rule is still recognized by the Orthodox Church.

The Carmelites were, in fact, a Greek group of hermits living on Mt. Carmel. Latin Crusaders filled their waning ranks later and St Albert of Jerusalem formed a rule of life for them. They later adopted the Augustinian Rule.

In fact, St Simon Stock's prayer "O beautiful flower" was said in his anxiety in England when the Latin orders thought to throw the Carmelites out.

The reason? The Carmelites are an Eastern monastic group that have no place in the West . . .

It was St John Cassian and his writings on the Thebaid and Coptic monasticism who brought the Eastern monastic traditions into Europe via France.

I visited the Isle of ST Honoratus at Lerins. In typical Eastern style, the old monks there had a central monastery for life in common and this was surrounded by about seven chapels with eremitical cells around the island (that one can walk easily in half an hour).

The monks there are today Cistercians. They have a beautiful Eastern icon of All Saints of Lerins and there is a site they keep (I forget the URL but it should be easy enough to find using a search engine).

The Celtic monks adopted the recitation of the Psalter 12 Psalms at a time from Coptic Egypt. The Benedictine rite followed this closely, at least for Matins - something that was later borrowed by the old Roman Rite as well.

But the Celtic monks alone were the only Western order (Friends of God or Celi De) that did prostrations - a practice borrowed from the East.

Although the East limited itself to the Rules of St Basil and St Pachomios (with some Antonians), St Paissy Velichkovsky developed his own monastic reform with his 18 point Rule that included the Jesus Prayer.

Alex

Well, thank you, but that doesn't exactly answer my questions. Yes, I am well aware of the Eastern influences on manasticism in the West. In fact, I am beginning to believe that as far as Monasticism is concerned, there is no East and West. Thus, my interest in the Carthusians.

As I see it, they appear to be the closest thing the West has to the Sketes of the old world. I want to know if others see those similarities or am I stretching the idea too far?

Dmitri

Dear Dmitri,

Well, you are welcome!

I was in a Trappist monastery for a while and the Cistercians are truly very Eastern in many ways.

But I think you are right - there really is no East and West here.

I found that the East is more given to the "podvig" of prayer rather than the passive experience of contemplation of Western orders where the imagination is used extensively in a discursive method of prayer.

The Eastern monks are kept really busy with the Jesus Prayer, the long Office, the Psalter, Akafists, prostrations etc.

The East even prescribes more prostrations for young novices, hard physical work outside etc.

And whereas the Western monks are often devoted to a profession or form of agricultural work, the Eastern monks tend to have a greater sense of what they do as a contribution to the maintenance and promotion of an Eastern spiritual "culture," Byzantine culture, Russian culture etc.

Am I getting warmer?

Alex

Yes, well this is were I feel the Carthusians come into the picture. They appear to have the contemplative discipline of the Easten Fathers.

I think it is an interesting mix as far as I can tell.

Dmitri

Dear Dmitri,

An Eastern Orthodox Father, like St Theophan the Recluse or Bl. Seraphim Rose would add that the Carthusians don't measure up to the Orthodox monastic standard because of their use of the imagination in prayer.

This doesn't mean that the Eastern Fathers didn't meditate, however.

Alex

Dear Orthodox Catholic:

The Carmelites never used the rule of St. Augustine. They have their own rule.

Alex,

Can you explain what is "podvig"? What is the Eastern way of praying? I am not fully understanding the concept of contemplation (although I've heard of it quite a lot and is popular nowadays). What is contemplation? Contemplation is western way, right?

Forgive me if I'm ignorant in this subject. But I would like to see my prayer life to be influenced by the Eastern way of praying (whatever that is). Right now, I just pray the words to God as if I'm talking to Him in the room. I also use Byzantine prayer books.

Many thanks for your contribution of your GREAT KNOWLEDGE to this subject. God bless. I feel that if I understood the Eastern prayers better, then I would understand what Akathist, molebins, etc. is all about (understanding it better).

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dear Dmitri,

I visited the Charterhouse at Parkminster, England on several occasions. This is the large Carthusian Monastery in Sussex. It is a wonderful place. My impressions were very positive. Of course, this was some years ago now, and the community may have changed. I met the Prior Father Bernard (who is a medical doctor), and he impressed me very much. I also met several of the lay brotherhood, who are responsible for the running of the monastery.

It was a very large house, built to house the French monks who were thrown out of France when the contemplative communities were expelled in the last century (well now, the nineteenth century, we have to say now!). When the laws were changed, and the Grand Chartreuse was re-populated with hermits, Parkminster was really too large for the remant community, and for the subsequent English vocations which have continued the Carthusian presence in England. I have heard that some of the Charterhouses are considering 'downsizing'. Of course they do not "advertise" for vocations, so in our day, their way of life is not popular. It is however a remarkable charism, and a great gift in the Church.

Have you read many of the works of Bruno, which have recently been republished? About 7 years ago, there were two anonymous books by a Carthusian novice master, of his novice conferences. These are quite remarkable, and a way of getting a glimpse of their spirit.

I heartily commend this vocation to anyone considering the contemplative, hidden and silent live in our Church.

Elias

I don't know much about monastic prayer and spirituality, but why does the Eastern Church have problems with imaging during prayer? If by imagination you mean imaging Christ's life as in the Bible, I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't think the Gospels or the Epistles speak for or against this type of contemplation. Of course if you mean imagining strange things such as pink elephants dancing in the sky, then I can see where we'd have problems. ;-)

On a final note, since the Eastern Church has promoted the use of external images such as iconography throughout her history, what difference are mental images such as having the life of Christ, the Theotokos or the Saints in your mind as you pray?

<<<An Eastern Orthodox Father, like St Theophan the Recluse or Bl. Seraphim Rose would add that the Carthusians don't measure up to the Orthodox monastic standard because of their use of the imagination in prayer.>>>

When I was an undergrad in Italy, our college group visited the Carthusian Charterhouse in Pavia. (Contra Stendahl, there's no Charterhouse in Parma, but there is one in nearby Pavia.)

It was awesome. That place fairly reeked holiness.

At the gift shop (where they sell Chartreuse, chocolates, rosaries, etc., to support the order), we met an Ethiopian monk. He was very tall and thin and looked about as "quintessentially monklike" as you can imagine!

This particular Charterhouse had been built by the Visconti family in order to ensure that there would always by holy monks praying for the souls of family members. They specifically wanted Carthusians, because that order was famous for having never been corrupted and hence never needing reformation.

The monastery church has marvelous trompe-l'oeil paintings. You glance here and there, and you swear there's a monk peering out at you from behind some architectural detail...but it's really a fresco.

We went inside one of the little houses the monks live in (one monk per little house). It is sparsely furnished, to say the least! Each little house had a little garden attached. In the distance you can see the Italian Alps.

I'm getting shivers thinking about it.

BTW, have you ever been to LaVerna, where St. Francis received the Stigmata? It has the same sort of effect on one. It's truly holy ground!

ZT

Here is the web page for the Carthusians.

http//www.chartreux.org/index_us.html.

they have a virtual tour of Parkminister, the one in England, as one of the posters mentions.

Every holy place I visited in Italy, England or Scotland reeked of holiness.

I would like to make a few comments in replie to Antony's remarks.

Although we were made in God's image mankind has tried to make God in his own image.

We avoid the imagination in prayer and equally in iconography because the imagination is a very, very dangerous thing.

Our approach to God is experiential. This is the Orthodox understanding of theology. It is knowing God, not knowing about Him. Speculative theology and speculative meditation remains pure speculation. It opens the mind and the soul to 'prelest' - diabolical delusion. This puts our very souls in danger. We only need to read the lives of the ascetical fathers to see how those who 'did things their own way' were spiritually, destroyed'.

Our understanding of the divine is shaped by Divine Revelation, in and through the Holy Spirit. We do not go beyond what we have received. To do so would be mental idolatry - creating God in our fallen human imagination. As we can see in the lives and experiences of those holy men and women who have struggled to attain theoria -the vision of God, and theosis - divinisation and union with God, the imagination has no place in this spiritual quest.

The way to the vision of God is repentance, humility and renunciation of self. How can my imagination and speculation agree with humility and self-abasement. Who am I to invent spiritual nonsense in my head. I am nobody.

As we sing in matins - God is the Lord, and has revealed Himself to us. We don't need imagination because God has revealed himself. All gnosis is open to those who want to see and hear Christ - the Way, the Truth and the Life.

If non-Byzantine Christianity had stuck to the selflessness of true contemplation, then we wouldn't have the Latin Church needing Sufi and Zen and the spiritual chaos which destroys and confuses souls.

With love in Christ -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Dear Dmitri, You may be aware that the Ecumenical Patriarch during his visit to Calabria addressed the monks of the Charterhouse of Serra San Bruno (March 21, 2001) which is under the protection of the protomartyr and archdeacon Stephen. The patriarch spoke of the fraternal relations between the Carthusian monastic community and Orthodox monks which can be traced back to St. Bruno who met many Greek monks of his day in Calabria. The Calabrian Carthusians today continue their dialogue with the Orthodox toward the unity of Christians. I believe the historical record will show that St. Bruno and the Calabrian Carthusians were influenced by Byzantine monastacism.
Vito