www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West What would we all be called if we united

If the East and West united, what would we all be called ? Orthodox Catholics ? Orthodox Christians ? Catholic Orthodox ?
Or would that be another task on the agenda to be discussed before final unity.


Dominus Vobiscum,

Brad

Now you've done it. By throwing in one more question, to add to the one that has kept us apart for a thousand years, you've added another 1000 to negotiations. :rolleyes:

Seriously, with Modernism eating away on the West Bank and Islam eating away on the East Bank one would think we would unite.

Sigh...

Dan L

United Church of Chirst, but I think this is already taken. Or, Holy Apostolic Church of Christ. (notice Catholic or Orthodox are not mentioned here)

But seriously, the Vatican would want the word Catholic to be prominent and the Eastern Church would want the word Orthodox to be promenent. And the beat goes on.

As for me I make it "Holy Orthodox Catholic Church".

JoeS

As a Catholic, I would be happy with "Holy Orthodox Catholic Church" as well.

Since Catholics consider themselves orthodox, and Orthodox consider themselves catholic, really it is just a matter of capitalization!

Works for me.

Joe,
That sounds like a winner.
The word Orthodox meaning right believer and Catholic meaning throughout the whole.

We'd all be Orthodox Catholics.

maybe Alex (aka Orthodox Catholic) was on to something.

Brad

To me, simply take up where we left off: the Catholic Church. :p

Orthodox in faith, catholic in belief!

Seriously.

Amado

Hello,

In the old service book at an Orthodox Church that I go to has it labeled "Orthodox Catholic Church." Even some prayers contained these words.

Interesting isn't it? Well...from what I understood, even way BEFORE the schism, the Eastern Churches were called "Orthodox" and while the Western Churches were called "Catholic."

But to me, it doesn't matter. Perhaps we can stick to the way we are called RIGHT NOW.

But otherwise, Orthodox Catholic is fine.

As Pope John Paul II says, "We must be Orthodox in faith, Catholic in love."

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

"The One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" is the official title for both those in Communion with Rome and those with Constantinople. It is in our Creed.

However, I recommend adding "Orthodox," which is a reference to the correctness of the faith and worship. Whereas "Catholic" is a reference to the Church, "kata 'olon" or "according to the whole;" i.e., "complete or lacking nothing."

So it would be "the One Holy, Orthodox, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."

Of course, we are a long way from there.

In Christ,
Andrew

And then the nagging question as to how we would choose our "Supremo."

The Pope should still be such, as a visible sign of the "Petrine Office."

But now the Eastern hierarchs must have a direct participation in the election of the Supreme Pontiff by:

(1) Making all the chief hierarchs, notably Patriarchs and Metropolitans, of all Eastern Churches eligible and available for creation as Cardinal. (No more refusal to such important role as Cardinal electors and, as a consequence, to be "papabili.")

(2) Investing those Cardinal Patriarchs (normally the most senior of the Eastern Patriarchs) the same authority and power as the Cardinal Bishops in the Order of Bishops of the Sacred College.

(3) Appointing, through merit, Eastern Cardinals to key positions in the Curia to "universalize" the central administration of the united Church.

(4) Recognizing and maintaining the inherent authority and powers of Patriarchs (only) and the Holy Synods within their respective national boundaries, with overriding authority of the universal Code of Canons to be adopted therefor, leaving Metropolitanates and Churches in the diaspora to be integrated into the existing episcopal conferences of each country.

(5) Ipso facto including all Eastern Bishops in the Regional Synod of Bishops and, of course, in the World Synod of Bishops.

Just musing.

Amado

Oh, no!

The Eastern bishops as a whole don't choose the Patriarch of Constantinople, only those who are a part of that particular Synod. And the Patriarch of Constantinople has no direct say in the selection of the Patriarch of Antioch (Damascus), for example, only the members of that Synod select him.

No, in my vision of union, the Pope of Rome, the primatial see (see of first Honor and court of appeal for parties that agree to submit their case before it), would be selected exclusively by the Latins.

Similarly, his authority would be within his patriarchate, as it is for all other patriarchs. They cross those lines when some issue crosses the lines of doctrinal correctness, jurisdictional/ecclesiastical lines, or is an obvious moral scandal of proportions that may harm the faith of the flock.

The Patriarchs (Latin, Byzantine, Armenian, Coptic, etc.) might have a consultative body, but they would not select each other.

In Christ,
Andrew

Now all you gotta do is forward this discussion to Rome and they will have one question less to answer as was stated at the beginning. The Byzatine Forum solved that really easy!

Humm, maybe they will start sending us some of the questions they can't settle

Dear Andrew:

The administration of the Catholic Church has now become global, with local Churches in 176 countries.

The papal system of Church governance has outstripped (outpaced?) the patriarchal system as far as the Catholic side is concerned, perhaps because of the essential nature of the latter to be delimited by its being "national" in scope.

With the emergence of a "united Church," the Church as envisioned becomes more global with the addition of the Eastern Churches, necessitating the utilization more of the papal system, in conjunction with the patriarchal system in Orthodox countries where the latter prevails.

My concept aims to have an "orderly" composition of the Church universal.

But we are just dreaming, right?

Amado

The Holy Orthodox Catholic Apostolic Church of course!
Stephanos I

Orthodox Christians of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.