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Dear Orthodox brethren

Last night I had the pleasure of speaking at some length over dinner with a friend of mine here at Oxford who is training to become an Anglican priest. He is a good man and one who seems to have seen through many of the holes in the current theological trends.

However, in the course of our conversation it became evident that he and I had varying views of Orthodoxy i.e. he did not know that the Orthodox accept the perpetual virginity of the all holy Theotokos. Indeed, he seemed to be of the impression that Orthodoxy was a great deal closer to Anglicanism than I imagine it is.

My question to the Orthodox on this board is: Have you in your own experience encountered Anglicans who have this view of Orthodoxy? And what sources were you able to refer them to in order to display that there are certain beliefs that simply belong to the Apostolic traditions of the Church Universal? Thinking particularly here about Eastern Sources on Our Lady, Ecclesiology etc.

Thank you
Myles

Dear Myles, Christ is Risen!
This is a quick answer as I don't have much time at the moment; one hopes others may reply more verbosely.

The perpetual virginity of the all holy Theotokos is obvious to anyone who has ever tread the texts of the Orthodox services. For a good explanation, see:
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/evervirgin.aspx

Also, for general information on Orthodoxy, among several websites is the parent of the above:
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/

I hope this helps,
Photius

Dear Myles,

I have met Anglicans and other Protestants who don't know the difference between the Immaculate Conception and the Perpetual Virginity of the Mother of God.

Thus, since they've "heard" the Orthodox don't accept the Immaculate Conception, then . . .

Alex

Thank you both for replying. I will keep in mind your words and hopefully next time I see my friend I'll be able to pass him these URL's you've posted Photius

Dear Myles,

When you are speaking to your Anglican friend next, tell him you know an Eastern Catholic who is a member of the Society of King Charles the Martyr . . .

Then look for his reaction . . .

Alex

Hehe, I will. He didnt even know that there were Eastern Catholics until I told him so yesterday. If only he knew the most esteemed and most educated Dr Roman, hmn? I must say I am deeply impressed by your encyclopedic knowledge of not only your own Byzantine tradition but the others also.

Dear Myles,

Actually, I'm an idiot!

But, as I like to think, an interesting one at times . . .

Could you also ask him which branch of Anglicanism he belongs to, if you don't already know?

Is it: Low and Lazy; Middle and Hazy; or is it High and Crazy?



Alex

Whose wife, BTW, was Catholic.

Porter

Myles, I think this is not an uncommon phenomena amongst Anglicans who often feel that their liturgy is no longer spiritually satisfying, has experienced desacralization and loss of mystery, all of those things and to whom Orthodoxy outwardly seems very attractive. This is a very poor analogy, but like when a child first goes to a circus - all the tents, very different people (the carnies), spectacular sensual experience, something very mysterious about the whole thing.

Dear Porter,

Yes, she was!

But not nearly so devoted to her faith as he was to his!

Alex

Alex is a walking library when it comes to that stuff.

-ray

I am not sure how devoted she was but I do remember reading somewhere that his French Catholic wife had a chapel where a Latin priest said mass right in the palace. Sometimes Charles and the family used to attend with her. That is one of the reasons he met with such criticism from the opposition - especially those who supported Cromwell.

The movie Cromwell does a good job of telling his story along with Cromwell's. It is pretty close to the facts as well, but I saw it(in a history class at the university I attended then) in the early 90's so details for me are a bit vague. And I do agree that he remained loyal to the Anglican faith, however, was also supportive of her.

Mary Jo

Christ Is Risen! Indeed He Is Risen!

There always was the desire of some Anglicans to claim that the differences between themselves and the Orthodox Church were merely geohistoric happenstance. They did not want North American Orthodoxy to develop in the early 20th Century and merely wanted the Orthodox to join Episcopal Churches. An interesting historical document on this matter was written by St. Raphael Hawaweeney.

On the other hand, Orthodoxy is certainly attractive to Anglicans today, and one Episcopal Theologian stated quite clearly to me that the problems of the Anglican Communion are its worldliness whereas Orthodoxy's are those of fallen man. In explaining this, Father said that the Episcopal Church doctrinally blows with every wind of the world while the doctrine of the Orthodox Church does not change. But Orthodoxy's problems are those of fallen man, ethnic-jurisdictionalism with bishops (and some clergy and laity) wishing to to keep five bishops in one city alive for money and/or power (or a desire to keep alive the "Old World Culture" as they think they know it). This all flies in the face of every canon of the Orthodox Church (and actually the Catholic Church as well since most were promulgated long before the Great Schism). Many Episcopalians who would love to join the Orthodox Church get "freaked out" by ethnic-jurisdictionalism and the Eastern European/Middle Eastern backbiting. This results in many not joining Orthodoxy for fear of things like not fitting in.

Just a comment on this. The Fall of Communism has brought about a revitalization of Orthodoxy in the National Churches in a miraculous manner (just look at Albania). So sadly, the vestiges of the Bolshevik Revolution are most prominent in ... North America where our unity under Ss. Tikhon and Raphael was shattered into what we have today. And one of the results of this North American tragedy is Orthodoxy's inability to pastorally address those Western Christians (especially Episcopalians) who seek her doctrinal and liturgical strength but untimately end up discouraged.

In His Service,

Three Cents

PORTER YOU ARE HERE

Henrietta Maria was very much a Counter-Reformation monarch and created quite a lot of havoc in the English royal family by her ostentatious Catholicism which did really nothing to help ordinary Catholics in England. She used much pressure to convert her sons to Catholicism especially Prince Henry neglecting how this would have destroyed their chances of regaining the throne after the Civil War. Certainly, it was not Charles 's smartest action to marry her. Anne of Denmark (James I's queen) and Catherine of Braganza (She had much to put up with!)are much better role models as far as Catholic rulers.