www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West When to be polemical

Adam --

There is nothing I like better than a good verbal donneybrooke. But in the last few months I have had to ask myself WHY I like getting into these things, especially on the Internet, where I can easily lapse into some serious verbal abuse of folks I don't agree with.

My answer troubles me. I find that deep in my heart I am not so much being a defensor fidei for reasons of God's glory and truth as much as I am pumping up my ego needs. Yes, I like knowing the truth of the Faith and I strive to be obedient to it in all things, but on a scale of 1 to 10, that gets about a 2 and my ego gets an 11. Not a good ratio at all.

I would suggest that you look inside and be sure that you are using such an approach for the glory of God (and such an approach does have times when it is needed for that glory).

As for me, I think I have some serious work to do in the humility department.

Cordially in Christ and the Blessed Virgin,

Brother Ed

Dear Brother Ed,

My experiences echo yours.

St Philip Neri trained his students in great humility.

The Oratorians would form a circle and he would go around making a cutting joke about each one.

Among his group was a young Cardinal who desperately wanted to become Pope.

Whenever they cracked a joke about him, he would burst into tears and leave the room.

But over time, he stopped acting like that and learned true humility.

The fact is that he really WAS elected Pope - and then declined out of the humility taught him by St Philip Neri.

Alex

Dear Alex:

Yea the Anglicans are very pluralistic. Two years ago I was in great Britain and had the opportunity to see a lil bit of both sides, the Catholic minded ones and the liberal Protestant side too.

Regarding the Book of Common Prayer, a Roman priest there said that the idea of the RC there was to accept former Anglican priests using a more old-fashioned Book of Common Prayer, with some corrections. Actually the BCP is not the same as it was before and it suffered a reform recently, similar to that of the Roman Mass. I suppose that the first Book was quite reverent and acceptable for Catholics, even more than the modern masss, but I am not sure.

This priest diud not seem happy with the idea of priests bbeing received with the BCP, he said it would be a disaster, since other ministers in Wales and Scottlannd also wante to have thir Books with them. The interesting thing is that those who were allowed to keep the BCP, eventualy shifted to the Roman Missal, because both of them were very similar.

Dear Snoopers,

Yes, that has been my experience as well!

Truth be told, I know traditional RC's who love attending High Church Anglican Eucharists as they are closer to the Tridentine Mass than the Novus Ordo.

The Anglo-Catholic priests I know are very traditional, and love ritual, the Rosary et al.

I knew one who was all this, and also commemorated the "Holy Father, the Pope of Rome."

When I asked him why he did that, he replied, "Because that is what he is . . ."

Alex

As a recovering polemicist, and as one often finds himself relapsing back into his old habits, let me say that I do not believe that polemics is good for the soul, either mine or others.

Who does the polemics benefit? And why do some of us enjoy it so much?

Is the point of polemics to persuade? Then it usually fails, doesn't it? How many minds are changed?

Hauerwas is a great example. He is a virtuoso at polemics. (His vulgarity, btw, is part of the schtick and is absolutely essential to his public persona, which I think is great!) I remember seeing him lecture in Princeton before a group of biblical scholars, where he told them that the first thing he would do if he were in charge was to fire the lot of them! :-)

There is no doubt that Hauerwas he had not engaged in polemics, he would probably would have been forgotten already. And yet, what has his impact been in theology and ethics? He's a one man show, but constructively a dead end.

I'm all for passionate argument. But personally, I find that the people who are able to persuade me are those who can argue with both conviction and graciousness.

As far as confronting Anglicans or whatever group of heretics who need to be told the truth, well, unless you are a divinely-called prophet, I suggest there are better ways to employ your energies ...

Dear Fr. Kimel,

Welcome back! It's good to see your name again and read your words.

You posted:

"As far as confronting Anglicans or whatever group of heretics who need to be told the truth, well, unless you are a divinely-called prophet, I suggest there are better ways to employ your energies ..."

I totally agree. It's been my experience that when we look at each other and try see those with whom we agree and those with whom we disagree as brothers and sisters with whom we share a pilgrimage, the discussion that ensues is caring and respectful. That makes it even more possible for us to see those who disagree with us as brothers and sisters of the same Father Who's gone to extreme lengths to help us behave as siblings in His Name.

I'm not sure why it works that way, but it seems to me that it does.

Again, welcome back.

Steve