www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West When is it the right time ...

to begin seeking a change of Rites?

My family and I have been attending a Ruthenian parish since December. In that time we have come to realize that as converts to the Catholic Church, had we known that the Eastern Rites of the Church existed we would not have become Catholic through the Latin Rite.

We exclusively attend the Divine Liturgy at the Ruthenian parish. We are active members of the parish community.

We feel a deep and abiding affinity for the spirituality of the Byzantine Rite.

We aren't disgruntled Latins. We didn't attend the Byzantine Rite in order to get away from the Latin Church. We attended because we were curious to learn more about the other Rites of the Catholic Church. What we found was a very pleasant surprise.

So at what point does one know that they are ready to, or should, begin the process for changing Rites?

Now seems a good time.

Dan L

Technically, you should be worship at your Byzantine Church for at least a full year. Get to know the priest, the other parishoners, etc. Make sure you're ready for the switch. Once you switch, that's it, no going back to the Latin Rite. I know many people who regularly attend a Byzantine Catholic Church, are even members of the parish, but are canonically Latin Rite.

I'd suggest waiting until next December to make any decisions.

Carole,

The parish you are attending belongs to the Eparchy of Passaic. If memory serves me correctly, Passaic imposes a requirement of three years attendance before it will consider a request for a petition to change canonical enrollment (the only eparchy of which I'm aware that has a formal period of time designated). Should anyone remember differently (or can confirm my recollection), please do so.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,
you are right about the three year requirement in the Passaic Eparchy...we are finally at the three year mark now and are getting our letter and papers together. In addition to the letters, Passaic also wants to see proof of Baptism, Communion and Confirmation/Chrismation and proof that a couple are married within the Church.

Vie

Vie,

Thank you. I knew I remembered someone discussing their frustration with the wait, but couldn't recollect whom it was. My prayers for you and your family as you approach the time for petitioning.

Many years,

Neil, who is inclined to think a year may be too soon, but thinks two would be adequate in most cases.

Three year waiting period required by the Passaic Eparchy??? Wow!!!
For an Eastern Rite Catholic to be accepted by any Roman Rite Catholic church, I thing the waiting period has been 3 minutes.
Consider how many of our [prefer a rushed half-hour Mass] Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters have been welcomed fully into the Roman Rite by simply walking into the rectory and requesting membership. Over the years Roman Rite priests have ignored the rules.

What does Carole need to do to get the ball rolling? Does she need to formally state her intentions to make sure her three year period is already being fulfilled?

Answers to these questions would be helpful to anyone else in the same situation.

Bill

Quick and probably stupid question ...

My husband and I are converts to the Catholic Church from a mixed Protestant background. This is a second marriage for both of us. At the time we began our process of conversion (months before we even started RCIA) we submitted our prior marriages to the Marriage Tribunal of the Roman Catholic Diocese in which we live with a Petition for a Declaration of Nullity.

The Petitions were approved and the Declarations of Nullity were granted.

All of this happened before we even began the RCIA classes.

Because our respective first marriages were found to have been non-binding according to the laws of the Catholic Church before we were received into the Church we were instructed by our priest that convalidation of our marriage would not be necessary. We were instructed that the Church assumes all marriages performed outside of the Church between non-Catholics to be valid (unless cause can be shown to the contrary).

Anyone know if the Eastern Catholic Churches take the same view as the Romans on the validity of marriages that take place outside the Church between non-Catholics?

Hi, Pavloosh!

Merely registering at a particular parish does not affect one's sui iuris canonical Church affiliation... been there, done that!

I am a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic. For various reasons (mostly geographic), I and my family are currently registered as parishioners of our local Latin parish (and, yes... it did take all of three minutes ). Now, I can remain registered at this particular Latin parish and worship there until the day I die - it does not affect the fact that I am still a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic. As Catholics, we are free to worship at (and send our money to ) any Church that is in full communion with Rome, East or West, regardless of sui iuris affiliation.

Carole's question involves not merely parish registration, but actual change of canonical Church affiliation - a process that, as has been pointed out, Rome allows only once per an individual's lifetime. I haven't a clue as to how long of a waiting period the Latin Church would require of me if I were to seek an "official" transfer to the Latin Church or for that matter, if they would even approve my request at all (the tendency, as I understand it, is to deny transfers that would further reduce the populations of our Eastern Churches). Kind of a moot point in my case anyway, since I have no intention of ever doing so and, conversely, pray for changes in my situation that would once again allow me the opportunity to fully participate in my Eastern Catholicity on a regular basis.

...quite frankly, I think the Latin brethren I currently worship with are getting kinda tired of hearing me extol the unique virtues of Eastern theology at every opportunity I can, anyway...

Al (a pilgrim)

Al:
Are you saying once an Eastern Catholic always an Eastern Catholic? What will the Byzantine Rite priest say to you when you suddenly show up asking for your son or daughter's wedding to be performed or when there's a funeral?
My previous post was motivated by the experiences I've had in seeing Eastern Rite Catholics switch overnight to a Latin Rite parish. Those pastors didn't give two hoots about the rules. I'll never forget hearing a Latin Rite priest bragging that he had "converted" a family from the Byzantine church. Can you imagine the ignorance?

"a process that, as has been pointed out, Rome allows only once per an individual's lifetime."

I have seen this repeated here and elsewhere and this assertation has no basis in canon law. One could transfer sui iuirs churches as many times as the bishops involved are willing to allow it. (Although I would not recommend Church hopping to anyone.) Rome has no involvement in the matter when the transfer is between two Churhces with jurisdiction in same geographic area.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Dear Pavloosh,

That's pretty much what I am saying, with the obvious exception being cases where a formal change of canonical Church affiliation has been implemented.

This from the Code of Canon Law...

A Byzantine may receive the sacraments in a Latin church throughout his entire life. As the above quote illustrates, this does not make him a Latin; he's still a Byzantine.

He'll probably send you packing!

Seriously, my own experience, albeit limited, has been that most Byzantines who end up affiliating themselves with the Latin Church do so by choice - this being the case, they'd probably prefer to participate in the sacramental life of the Latin parish anyway. While this practice may violate the spirit of one's allegiance to their own Church sui iuris, it is technically not "wrong," as we know that the Catholic Church allows all her faithful to freely participate in the Holy Mysteries of any of her sui iuris Churches, regardless of their own canonical affiliation.

My own family is not at all atypical of this phenomenom. I have had Byzantine cousins, nephews and nieces who were married in the Latin parishes that they chose to attend. My own father, in fact, was buried through a Latin parish. Remember that any Catholic in communion with Rome may freely avail him/herself to the Holy Mysteries through any other Church sui iuris without consequence.

BTW - I do have a cousin who retired to the northwoods of Wisconsin - middle of nowhere! He continues to religiously (pun fully intended) mail his collection envelope every week to our "home" Byzantine parish, hundreds of miles away, in the hopes that Father will remember him enough to bury him when Our Lord takes him home.

Obviously, he "converted" no one.


Dear Fr. Deacon Lance,

Please excuse my poor choice of wording. I am certain that you are correct - these cases need only go as far as the approval of the local bishops. "Rome" needs not be involved. I guess I am a product of my times - as a youth I recall a Latin gentleman of our parish officially "changing rites," as we said back then, for the sake of his Byzantine wife (and for the love of our parish!). Seems it was a weekly ritual for all of us to anxiously ask him every Sunday after Liturgy, "Hey, John, have you heard from Rome yet?" Old habits die hard!

As to the once-per-lifetime issue, forgive me again if I am guilty of perpetuating a myth. As I sit here now, I feel certain I've seen the issue addressed in print - obviously, as is usually the case, when I need it, I can't find it! Perhaps I merely jumped abord the very bandwagon that I am guilty of helping to push along on its way. Thank you for your input and your clarification.

Al (a pilgrim)

Carole,

Bill makes an excellent point. There's actually nothing formally documented, of which I'm aware, as to how one confirms that they have met Passaic's 3 year requirement. But, one would hardly want to wait 3 years, file the petition, and be told "ok, get with us in 3 years".

My usual advice is to be certain that the parish priest is aware of you and your interest, so that he can attest, 3 years hence, to your involvement in the parish and participation in its liturgical life (and, hopefully, more). As I've noted in the past, our churches are really communities and our small numbers dictate that the faithful need to support them beyond occupying a pew (or space, depending on the interior style of the temple ) and putting an envelope in the collection basket.

Both formal parishoners and those seeking to petition for a Change of Canonical Enrollment need to be active in the parish. If you don't like pirohi (or fataya or lamhijean or baklava, depending on the particular ethnicity/culture of the church) volunteer to serve it at the food fair to those with more sophisticated taste buds . Usher, teach or assist with religious education, help with "coffee and" after Liturgy, whatever.

In addition, I'd ask the priest to "register" you in the parish rolls - that will memorialize a start date. I'd also write to the Eparchy and document your intent to request a Change. In that letter, articulate the reasons for your request, why and how the spirituality of the East has affected you and what you makes you believe that this is what is the best course of action for your own spiritual growth. As has been noted in the past, here and elsewhere, discontent with the Latin Church, most particularly with the Novus Ordo Mass, is not considered an acceptable basis for requesting such a Change and petitions made on that basis will ordinarily be rejected out-of-hand.

I'd also begin collecting the documentation that Vie mentioned and store it safely away for the day that it is required. Vie may have some additional advice, based on her experience - my own personal experience in this regard is from such a long ago and different time as to be relegated to the category of historical footnotes.

Many years,

Neil

Al,

LOL, I love the bandwagon analogy .

Deacon Lance is correct. Old habits die hard and I, too, have been guilty of chanting the "once in a lifetime" mantra. While I can't remember whether that precept was memorialized in the 1917 Code, when Rome was directly involved in the process (and, subsequently, when that aspect was delegated to the Apostolic Delegate), it was at least cited and may well have been enforced when it came to light.

I'd offer that it still serves a useful purpose in suggesting to folks that they consider carefully before petitioning for a change - to assure that it's not a passing fancy and to avoid Church-hopping that sometimes turns on such trivialities as the personality of the pastor of the moment.

Many years,

Neil, reaching out to help his brother off the rolling bandwagon