www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West I believe vs. We believe

I notice in the Eastern Church they begin the Creed with I believe. In the Western Church it is We believe. Is there any particular reason why this is? How did the early Church begin the Creed? Thank you.

In Christ,
Anthony

Just yesterday I read on this forum that:

a) the original Creed is "We Believe..."

b) the Coptic Orthodox (and Catholic?) Church still use "We Believe..."

Logos Teen

Very interesting. Thank you Teen. I wonder if all the Oriental Churches use We believe?

In Christ,
Anthony

Dear Friends,

Both "we" and "I" are used when confessing the Orthodox Catholic Creed depending on the liturgical context.

Many Eastern Churches prefer to use the "I" during the Liturgy and in doing so they use the Creed as recited by the newly baptized catechumens.

The Church wishes to underline our renewal of baptismal experience of faith at that time which is our personal and complete commitment to Christ who washed us of sin and anointed us with the "oil of gladness."

It is a reminder of our own Priesthood in Christ since we join with the Priest at the Altar in making the Holy Offering.

And we use "I" in our daily prayers as well to underline the personal nature of the faith commitment that we are in.

A similar thing occurs when we pray alone.

One may pray: By the prayers of our Holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ, our God, have mercy on us.

But we may also pray, when praying alone: Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Alex

Personally, especially in communal settings, I prefer the "We Believe", for I think it more completely emphasizes a faithful community of believers.

Even in my own private prayers, I often use "us", "we", and "our" because it reminds me that my individual faith is utter nothing when detached from the faith of the community.

Perhaps the history of the Apostles' Creed found here will be of interest to you: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm

Or the Catechism of the Catholic Church: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c1.htm

Logos Teen

'Liturgiam Authenticam' (the latest document guiding the translations of the Latin Liturgy) states: �Specific norms are then given for the translation of Eucharistic Prayers, the Creed, (which is to be translated in the first person singular: "I believe ... "), and the general ordering and layout of liturgical books and their preliminary decrees and introductory texts.�

I have not studied this issue. I know that the Byzantine Churches use �I believe� (first person singular) in the Symbol of Faith professed to symbolize that personal faith is necessary before the Holy Mysteries can be ministered (children, of course, receiving the Mysteries on the basis of the parent�s faith).

I have seen numerous articles about the texts in the Latin Church being mistranslated to indicate �We believe� since the official Latin texts use the first person singular. It appears that in the near future there will be several adjustments in the text of the Latin Liturgy. Generally, the Latin Church seems to be abandoning its experimentation with paraphrasing and returning to the principle of �fidelity and exactness in rendering the Latin texts into a vernacular language�. As our Byzantine Churches continue to produce English language translations of our liturgical texts we should keep in mind that the Liturgical Instruction asks us to also be exacting in producing translations. I think it asks this of us because the experimentation in translations of the Roman Missal have failed. We should learn from their experience.

For further reading:

Instruction for Applying the Liturg...of Canons of the Eastern Churches (1996)

Liturgiam authenticam - On the Use ...of the Books of the Roman Liturgy (2001) [ewtn.com]

Thanks, Admin.

Can anyone shed light on the Oriental Orthodox usage or just the Coptic usage of the Creed?

Logos Teen

As Father Hopko points out, the original was written in first person plural. It was later changed to the singular.

http://www.geocities.com/mgocsmbvli/nicene.htm

Dear Friends,

This is not about a change to the Creed, it is about the liturgical context in which it is used.

As the esteemed Administrator pointed out, the Latin Church as well uses the "I" when using this Creed during the Mass, although recently the "we" is used.

(The Nicene Creed is only used on solemn feasts and on the Lord's Day in the West - otherwise the Apostles' Creed is normally used).

It would have been quite natural for a Council to use the "we" when expressing the Creed as a confessional document.

But the "I" is used within the liturgical context of a baptismal creed and I think it is rather beautiful that we may say the Creed as the catechumens preparing to be baptized do at the Liturgy.

We are renewing our baptismal vows, so to speak.

Faith is always personal - and I think the "I" does a better job of expressing this than the "we."

When I attended Latin High School, I used to hear criticism of the Eastern Churches for weakening the expression of personal faith via Chrismation and Eucharist for infants.

In fact, such expression is better preserved during each Liturgy than in the West.

Alex

"You believe"???

Dear Lemko,

You are really sizzling today, Friend.

I breathe a sigh of relief you haven't seen fit to come after me for anything. . . yet

Alex

Dear djs

From the above website When the creed became used in baptisms it could not remain in the 1st person singular (not 2nd thou/you). Why the do you think this is some sort of problem? The Latin had credo/I believe - the Universal Church AFAIK adopoted this usage.

Tony

Dear Seminarian Tony,

Now, now, such sign language . . .

Alex

Thank you Lemko for pointing out my blunder , which I took the liberty of editing.

Dear Tony,
Others might think that changing a word is a problem, but I would not, in general, say that.

(Some even claim that there is a canon against changing a single word!)

It's been a while since I studied this question, but here is what I remember. I think it's correct.

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed was, of course, originally composed as "We believe." It is rendered in the first person plural because it represents the confession of the bishops gathered in council. It was not intended as a creed to be recited at either baptism or in the Eucharist.

Eventually, it began to be used as a baptismal creed in some places, and so was rendered in the first-person singular.

Eventually, there was a desire to include the creed within the Eucharist proper. In most places, the first-person singular ("I believe"), modeled along the lines of a baptismal creed, was used; in other places the ("We believe") was used. Neither form can claim to be more original or traditional than the other.

Personally, I prefer the "I believe." It is so much easier to hide oneself within the voice community without committing oneself. The first-person singular confronts me with the need to personally assent to the faith of the community.

My two cents.